TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF SEN. SERGE OSMEÑA

Q: Sen. JV Ejercito is demanding for an apology for the release of the Napoles list...

Serge: Well, if he wants us to apologize, I will apologize. Pero alam niyo, naiipit din ang Blue Ribbon sapagkat kung itinago ni Sen. TG 'yung listahan, sasabihin kaagad ng mga tao sina-sanitize ang listahan. It is impossible for us to vet a witness. This information came from Napoles. We cannot tell Napoles what to say or not say. We will ask her a question, sino ang mga kasama sa scam na iyan, ang sasabihin niya A, B, C or D. We don't have the resources or the power to confirm it first before releasing the information to the public.

Q: Anong sense nung binigay ni Napoles 'yung list, tapos nung nakita na ng public saka niya sasabihin na, 'Ay! May mali.' Could it have been deliberately done?

Serge: No. That is a natural human experience. Alam niyo, tinatanong niyo sa witness kung anong nangyari in the last 13 years. Siyempre hindi perfect ang memory niyan. Ang gagawin niya susulat siya ng susulat, tapos i-issue niya ang written statement. It's impossible for us to expect that her memory will be perfect. Therefore, at least, if she has the courage to make a correction at sasabihin niya na 'Ay mali, hindi pala ito, 'yung isa pala,' then we have to accept that. But that does not mean that she's telling the truth. That means we still have to corroborate all of her statements by additional evidence, which is corroborating witnesses, documentary evidence, the COA report, and so on and so forth. These are natural in the course of things.

Q: May listahan tapos binawi...do you think the list is still credible?

Serge: We have to consider it as credible but not as perfect without mistakes. Nakita niyo naman, in the case of some members of the Senate, there were corroborating evidence, strong evidence, other witnesses from the COA, from the DBM records. So, does that mean that the government made a mistake in charging the senators? Hindi naman. But again, don't expect perfection. These are natural in the course of things.

Q: Paano naapektuhan ng pagbawi ng ibang pangalan ang credibility nung list?

Serge: Since I do not expect perfection, I think we still have to accept the list as is and corroborate it. Hindi naman namin sinasabi na that list is perfect absolutely, that everybody in that list is guilty. No, we're not saying that. What we're saying is that, 'Here's the list that Napoles gave." That's all we're saying...

Q: May sinasabi si Sec De Lima na kung hindi kaagad naisa-publiko 'yung list, wala daw sanang problema ngayon tungkol sa 'dagdag-bawas." Ang sabi niya, 'kung may mali, sana kami-kami lang ang nakakaalam."

Serge: Ang hirap niyan is that she was the first one to bring out the list. After she interviewed Napoles up to 2 am, siya ang nagsabi na meron siyang listahan pero hindi niya ni-release. Why did she have to say na meron siyang listahan? Siyempre, pumasok din si Sen. Ping Lacson at sinabi niya na may listahan din siya na galing kay Jimmy Napoles. And then he released it to us.

Buti nga na-release kaagad ni Sen. TG yung list sa media, and through the media to the public, para walang masabi ang publiko na sinisikreto nila 'yung listahan kasi isa-sanitize muna nila. Hindi. Ang ginawa, eto ang listahan na binigay ni Ping. And subsequently, mga 1 week or 2 later, Sec De Lima came here and gave us almost exactly the same list except for about 7-10 scribbled names that she herself added. And because the timing was different, and Ping gave us a list a week or 2 earlier. As she remembered more names from memory, she was able to add additional names.

Q: Walang malisya sa paglabas ng list?

Serge: Walang malisya diyan. As a matter of fact, we did it in the interest of transparency. And we have to commend Sen. Guingona for doing that. Nakita naman ninyo na pagbigay ni Sec De Lima kay Sen Guingona the other day, wala pang 15 minuto binigyan na kayo ng kopya, pina-zerox lang tapos he gave it away na.

Q: You're willing to apologize to Sen JV?

Serge: If that's what he wants, I will apologize. But then again, I will say, I don't know what else we could have done.'

Q: Up to how many mistakes is acceptable?

Serge: There's no numerical dividing line, it could be 3 mistakes, 15 mistakes, etc. But remember, there were 200 names in there. And for somebody to remember 200 names, to me is close to a miracle. I mean, 200 names perfectly, without a mistake, that's a miracle.

Q: Magdadagdag pa raw po? Okay lang ba?

Serge: It all depends. As long as they have documentary evidence. Because the list is not the one that will convict. The list is only what we see now. That's not going to be it. That's why the Department of Justice, the Ombudsman, and to a lesser extent the Blue Ribbon committee, would always look for back up evidence.

Q: Tomorrow is the deadline of Benhur Luy to submit the digital file... will you also give copies to the media?

Serge: I do not know. That would be a decision that the chairman would have to take. I would have no problems with that, if he left it up to me. But unfortunately, I am not the person who decides these things.

However, I will say this. Eventually, it will get to media. Because these are supporting documents. As a matter of fact, the media, if the media does it homework, which I think sometimes it does better than us senators, it might find additional names. Baka media pa ang magdagdag, sabihin nila: 'O bakit wala si ganito, wala si ganyan' kasi nasilip pa nila dun sa files.

Now remember, a hard disk drive since 2000 or 2001, that's a lot if information! And if you make me sit down and check that hard disk drive, it will take me 4 weeks. And I won't get it perfect either. Probably only a team of accountants can do that.

Q: On the claim that Napoles is only trying to muddle the issue?

Serge: Everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion. And I'd say that just about everyone has a different perspective, may kakaunting diperensiya lang sa mga paningin nila. I have no problems with that.

Q: Do you share their opinion?

Serge: well, Napoles is trying to get off the hook. That's very definite. As a matter of fact, the main excuse is that she is not the one who is most guilty, it's the one who invented the scam, the brains, who is the most guilty. Hindi naman ganyan 'yung batas. And in reality, that's not the way the world works.

For example, we have laws against murder. If I murder somebody, I can say that 'I am not the most guilty one' because it was Adam and Eve who invented it, or Cain and Abel.' Hindi naman ganun. No court will accept that kind of reasoning.

Q: Do you think this dagdag-bawas tactic is part of her strategy? O honest mistake lang talaga?

Serge: Honest mistake! Those are honest mistakes. Those are honest oversights. But you know, believe me she will be challenged. There will be senators who will ask her, how come she made all of those mistakes. This is not the end of the story. We're not even beginning to get into the real story. The most meaty part would be the hard disk drive of Benhur.

Q: Chiz said De Lima is lawyering for De Lima?

Serge: That's his perspective and I will respect that. Maybe from a certain angle, it might seem that way. Pero personally, I don't think so.

Q: Kelan ang next hearing?

Serge: The following Thursday. It will be on the Malampaya scam, it is supposed to come first. 'Yung continuation nung hearing kay Napoles, none that I know of. I think we're tackling Malampaya in the next hearing but subsequently after that, itong pork barrel naman.

Q: Summon Napoles in the Malampaya scam hearing?

Serge: I think we have to summon her. But I think the key person there would be Ruby Tuazon.

Q: Pwede naman daw ibang araw bakit kailangan Thursday?

Serge: That's my fault. Long ago, I recommended to Sen. TG to hold all his blue ribbon hearings on a Thursday so that we don't get into conflict with other hearings which is normally scheduled on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. At mahirap dito ang makipag-coordinate. Kasi kung sasabihin ko, sige next Tuesday hearing tayo, hahanapin ko pa kung sino ang mayroong scheduled hearing nun at kakausapin ko na 'Pare, wag ka muna mag-hearing". So normally, I saw that very few hold hearings on Thursdays. So I just recommended to Senator TG and he seems to accept my recommendation. If he wants to hold a hearing, he can do it on a Thursday so everybody will know that anybody who wants to ask questions they will not schedule their own hearings.

Q: DO you see the need to invite Napoles again for the PDAF scam probe?

Serge: Yes. We want to invite Napoles here every day If we can. (Laughter)

Q: Options for Sen. Enrile in case a warrant is issued against the accused?

Serge: Well, because of his age and because of the many ailment attendant to his age, I think he is entitled to a hospital arrest, but it is a decision that only the court can make. We cannot make that decision.

Q: Tama bang sa Crame sila?

Serge: You'll have to ask them that. You'll have to ask the authorities who are making the preparations. I am not sure that they're going to be in Camp Crame, it's just the chismis in the newspapers.

Q: Isn't that giving favor to them?

Serge: Dapat pantay-pantay lahat... but also out of concern for their security, maybe that's what the government is doing..

Q: In the case of Sen. Enrile, kahit hospital arrest na lang?

Serge: We will not intervene. If you're asking me for my personal opinion, I think the Court should allow, should give some room or some leeway in view of the age of Sen. Enrile.