TRANSCRIPT&nbs| KAPIHAN SA SENADO WITH SEN. GATCHALIAN (Part 1)
ESPINOSA MURDER AND FRANCE VISIT
SENATE LOUNGE

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EMCEE: Good afternoon, welcome sa ating tanghalian sa Senado. Our guest for today is the Chairman of the Committee on Energy and Committee on economic affairs, Senator Sherwin Gatchalian.

Q: After the DOJ lowered the criminal case against Supt. Marcos from murder to homicide, ngayon naman the President would like to reinstate Supt. Marcos. Alam ko naka-attend ho kayo doon sa ilang hearings ng Committee on Public Order na kung saan ang findings ay premeditated. Ano ho ang tingin nyo dito?

SEN. WIN: 'Yung unang pumapasok sa isip ko ngayon, I think based on the hearings, I cannot exactly remember kung sinong police officer, but I remember that during the course of the investigation na merong isang policewoman na nag-text, if I'm not mistaken, na-i-text yata niya ang details about kay Espinosa and what happened. I'm trying to remember the details, 'yung oras tama? 'Yung oras ng pag-raid. And because of that story, we concluded, at least majority of us, concluded that this is a premeditated murder. That's why majority of the members ng committee agreed na pinlano patayin si Espinosa.

Ako rin, I was actually quite surprised when the crime was lowered down and I think may clamor na to really investigate this thoroughly and tingnan ulit ang mga facts na lumabas sa hearing. Nakailang hearings din kami at maraming lumabas na facts doon. I think sila Marcos and his cohorts should be investigated thoroughly, and my opinion on this is tingnan mabuti ng DOJ ang mga facts na lumabas sa investigation dito sa Senado.

Q: Pero 'yun nga ang problema sir. Bukond sa ni-lower na ang kaso, ire-reinstate pa. Hindi po ba parang pag-tolerate naman 'yun sa mga abusadong pulis?

SEN. WIN: I think this will send a very bad signal sa mga scalawags na nasa police force natin. Admittedly, marami pa tayong mga scalawags sa police force. Recently lang, merong dalawang police na nahuling may binubugbog, may pinapalo. Ayaw nating lumakas ang loob nitong mga scalawags. What we want is a police force that respects the law and abides by the rules of the PNP. Ayaw natin mag-breed ng impunity even within the PNP dahil it will really send a bad signal to the police force, and doon sa mga scalawags na nasa loob ng police force.

Q: So is it important na pag-re-open ng session ay magkaroon agad ng immediate re-investigation ang Senate on this issue?

SEN. WIN: I think the investigation on the murder itself is very clear, para sa akin. Maraming facts na lumabas doon at nabuo ang storya. What we want to learn is paano na-downgrade ang crime dito sa mga cohorts ni Marcos dahil very clear naman na premeditated ito. I think doon naman talaga nagkakatalo. So we would like to know ano ba ang nahanap nila na kakaiba sa nahanap ng Senado? Saan ba nagka-iba sa investigation ng DOJ sa investigation ng Senado?

Q: Pero sir, 'yung pag-reinstate ng Pangulo kay Marcos, hindi ba mas lalong magpapalakas 'yun sa impression na ang Pangulo ay kinukonsinte nya ang mga abusadong police? Hindi ba iyon nga ang criticism sa kanya hindi lang ng mga critics dito pati na ng international community?

SEN. WIN: Para sa akin, nag-uumpisa kasi iyan sa DOJ. Whatever facts that the DOJ laid down, susundan lang ng mga administrative ofiicers like PNP. That's why kung wala namang nahanap, for example, na-downgrade ng DOJ ang kaso, obviously, there is a corresponding administrative action. So it really boils down to that investigation. That's why I was actually also quite surprised na nangyari 'yan dahil nandito naman ang DOJ during the hearing, kompleto ang pamunuan ng police, if I'm not mistaken si Gen. Magalong pa yata ang nag-testify, he's a very credible source kaya maraming nagulat dito sa pag-downgrade.

Q: Sir, may report pa na gagawin syang (Supt. Marcos) head ng PNP-CIDG sa Region XII. Ano ito, promotion pa after what happened?

SEN. WIN: I think it will be more prudent for the PNP to hold whatever promotion or movement dahil nga merong outcry dito sa Senate na paano nangyari ito, at maraming oras ang naubos dito sa investigation, and the fact should be reviewed twice or even thrice para malaman natin kung paano nagkaiba ang investigation ng DOJ at ng Senado.

Q: Sir, presidential prerogative ba ito ng Presidente to reinstate Marcos at walang magagawa sina PNP Chief dela Rosa para hindi 'yun sundin?

SEN. WIN: Typically, ang Presidente kumukuha 'yan ng recommendation from the PNP and from the line. I don't think he will just unilaterally take action. That's why it's really more prudent for the PNP to hold whatever action they are thinking, pending itong opinion or outcry ng Senado dito sa action.

Q: Sir, 'yung explanation daw ni General Bato na parang wala daw kasing ginagawa pero pinapaswelduhan, i-assign na lang, pakinabangan na lang....

SEN. WIN: Ang problema dito is dahil nga sila ay parte ng isang napaka-karumaldumal na krimen, kapag ni-reinstate sila, baka mas marami pang hindi magandang magagawa itong mga taong to dahil I consider them scalawags eh. Dapat nga wala sila sa pwersa natin at marami tayong mga ganitong police na dapat wala sa ating pwersa.

Nakakalungkot dahil itong mga taong dapat wala sa pwersang ibinalik, ang made-demoralize dyan ay ang mga maaayos naman at matitinong police so we really need to be strict at na-mention ko na hindi ako naniniwala sa mga transfer-transfer lalo na sa Mindanao dahil hindi naman tapunan 'yan ng mga scalawags at ang pagta-transfer is a sign of weakness in the management of our police force. Kung hindi mo matanggal ang mga scalawags, paano namin aasahang didisiplinahin mo ang police force? Ang kailangan natin ay disiplina, hindi 'yung transfer. So for me, it's better to remove scalawags. Not only remove but kasuhan rin dahil may nilabag silang batas. Kagaya nitong sina Marcos, kasuhan rin para hindi na sila maka-damage ng iba pang mga institusyon natin.

Q: Can the PNP hold any action kahit President na ang nagsabi na i-reinstate?

SEN. WIN: I think so. They can recommend to the President, definitely. They would know more of the details. Usually, the Chief Executive will listen to the department heads, or top officials for recommendations. Ang Chief Executive, nakikinig yan sa mga advisers nila, and the top officials recommend the appropriate action.

Q: You're saying na ang move ng Presidente ay based from the recommendations?

SEN. WIN: Typically, ganoon ang nangyayari.

Q: Hindi ba 'yun initiative ng Pangulo Sir kasi ang impression, tao ni Pangulo itong si Marcos? SEN. WIN: I don't know kung tao nya, I don't have that information but I think it's really incumbent upon the PNP management to recommend the appropriate action.

Q: Can you brief us on what happened during your trip?

SEN. WIN: During the meeting with the Senate President of France, two media topics were discussed: 1) the fight against terrorism, and 2) the fight against climate change.

France, being one of the leaders in EU, 'yan talaga ang pinaka-concern nila. Of course in the sidelines, napag-usapan ang human rights, but I would say almost 90% ng usapan namin focused on terrorism and climate change. In fact, pinuntahan din namin ng minister nila ng ecological transitions, which he emphasized ang participation natin sa COP21. So itong pagpunta ng EU delegation to talk about human rights or the criminal activities here in our country, hindi namin napag-usapan during our trip there. I think the trip was really meant to forge goodwill and admittedly in the past, marami tayong mga misunderstandings with the European Union and itong pagpunta natin, we met with the Senate President, 'yung counterparts natin sa France. So it's really meant to foster goodwill with our French counterparts.

Q: (Inaudible)

SEN. WIN: I think, strengthening ties more than mending. Hindi ko naman na-feel ang any barrier. In fact, many welcomed us graciously and maganda ang naging usapan.

Q: (Inaudible)

SEN. WIN: I think they were also very sensitive with that. I think alam din nila ang composition ng mga senador na pumunta, considering that most of us came from the majority bloc so they were very sensitive kung sino ang mga kausap nila. That's why I said 10% of the time ay napag-usapan ang war on drugs, emphasized human rights but hindi na pumunta sa detalye.

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