Press Release
July 26, 2017

Full Transcript of Grace Poe's questions during the Senate hearing on the reinstatement of Supt. Marcos

Sen. Grace Poe: Mr. Chair, ang aking tanong, ang implikasyon nito ay hindi lamang sa liderato ng PNP: unang-una, nakita natin yung nangyari pero biglang napatawad, na-reinstate sa trabaho. Ang gusto natin is to maintain independence in the PNP, especially also in the DOJ for our state prosecutors. Nakita natin ang rekomendasyon ng IAS, NBI at first prosecutors' panel na murder lahat. And then with one different opinion, na-overturn ito sa homicide. But the implication of that is more that just overturning the decision, particularly with the examples being set in the DOJ. Bakit? Kamustahin natin, Mr. Chair, itong si Fiscal Alejo. What are the possible reasons that a prosecutor up for promotion will not be promoted? Is it true that you are up for promotion? How about the other members of your panel? Despite this I hope that you will answer my question candidly. Are you affected? Kayo ba ay naapektuhan ng inyong unang desisyon na murder tapos na-overturn?

Senior Assistant State Prosecutor Lilian Doris S. Alejo: I think po, personally, not at all kasi po nasanay naman po kami. Ako po, 23 years na po ako sa serbisyo. Nasanay na din po naman kami na ni-rereverse minsan po ng Secrertary of Justice kapag nag-aappeal sa resolutions po.

Poe: Okay, I understand now the tone. So you're up for promotion, is that true?

Alejo: I just applied for a position which was created by the National Prosecution Act in the year 2010, which up to now hindi pa po nafi-fill up ever.

Poe: 2010 pa po, mayroong kakulangan, may bakante doon, hindi pa rin kayo napo-promote?

Alejo: Actually po yun ay hindi pa po na fi-fill upan ever since na-create siya ng National Prosecution Act.

Poe: Ngayon, gusto kong tanungin itong ating mga kasama kung totoo ito. Senior Deputy State Prosecutor Theodore Villanueva, na-assign sa Guimaras tapos nalipat sa Malolos. Nandito po ba sya?

Alejo: Wala po.

Poe: Richard Fadullon to Guimaras, now binalik sa main office. Si Miguel Gudio sa Compostella Valley, but Gudio is now holding what office and what task forces is he in charge of, if any? City Prosecutor Ed Tomon ng Manila, under preventive suspension and Alex Ramos Tallones was deisgnated OIC. Is this normal practice in the DOJ and how many times is a prosecutor usually re-assigned at sa mga nasa unang desisyon na murder, yung naging findings, kumusta po ang mga prosecutors?

Alejo: So far, okay naman po. Wala naman pong, even before or during the time that we handled the investigation of the case, the preliminary investigation, wala naman pong pasabi or advise or any other influence, wala naman po.

Poe: Sa tingin ninyo, yung IAS, Atty. Triambulo, you still stand na talagang dapat murder itong kaso na ito?

IAS Chief Alfegar Triambulo: Yes po, ma'am. Not on the premeditation, but on the superior strength, because there are many qualified circumstances under the Revised Penal Code to make it murder.

Poe: Ito nga ang ating ikinalulungkot, kaya tayo may Internal Affairs Service to maintain independence. Masaya ako Atty. Triambulo na naninindigan kayo dito sapagkat yan nga ang ating itinutulak na magkaroon ng independence ang PNP. Hindi pwedeng dahil lamang sa isang desisyon ng kung sino ay marereverse lahat ng inyong findings. Paano kayo magkakaroon ng lakas ng loob? PNP Chief Dela Rosa, yung personal ninyong pananaw, tama ba naman ang nangyari doon?

Dela Rosa: Saang pangyayari, ma'am, iyong pagpatay?

Poe: Iyong nangyaring operasyon, yung pagpatay, etc.

Dela Rosa: Hindi po tama, ma'am, kaya nga pinenalize natin sila, one rank demotion po yung mga actual na kasama sa loob, 4 months na suspension si Supt. Marcos, others were given penalties.

Poe: Kayo mismo naniniwala na sa personal ninyong pananaw, walang teknikal anupaman na pwede silang ma-reinstate, sa tingin nyo hindi tama iyon at hindi magandang ehemplo iyon?

Dela Rosa: Yes, your honor.

Poe: Sabihin na nating hindi sya na-dismiss, yung ni-reinstate ba ninyo na OIC pa rin ng CIDG, wala ba kayong ibang makuha?

Dela Rosa: I am trained to follow orders, your honor.

Poe: Who gave you the orders to reinstate him in that particular position?

Dela Rosa: The President always intimated to me, whenever we talk, he said that kung pwede ng pagtrabahuhin yang mga taong yan, wala ng nag-babar sayo, patrabahuhin na yan, sayang sumusweldo mga tao na yan, pera ng gobyerno, sweldo nila tapos wala silang ginagawa.

Poe: Talaga namang dapat pagtrabahuhan nila ang sweldo nila, yun nga lang maraming balakid na ligal, pero ito ang tanong ko sa inyo, intimated to you, did he particularly say reinstate him in the position as OIC of the CIDG, in that particular area, Region 12?

Dela Rosa: That time, your honor, nang sinabi nyang pabalikin mo, pagtrabahuhin mo ang tao na yan, they're in full duty status. I talked to Director of CIDG, ano bang bakante dyan na pwede mong paglagyan ng tao na ito dahil pagtrabahuhin natin. He told na mababakante daw ang CIDG Region 12, sabi ko, ilagay mo doon para magtrabaho na doon, bumalik na yan.

Poe: Yung dati nyang posisyon, saan sya?

Dela Rosa: CIDG Region 8

Poe: Sa 8 sya tapos nalipat sa 12?

Dela Rosa: After incarceration, your honor, after nakapag-bail bond na sila.

Poe: Pero same function, different location, tama po?

Dela Rosa: Yes, your honor.

Poe: Yun ang problema, nakita na nating may pagkakamali. Oo, nagkaroon ng suspensyon, pero binibigyan mo pa rin ng parehong responsibilidad doon sa lugar na yun, hindi yan matututo ng leksyon, ganun pa rin. Siguro, mas walang habas na kung saka-sakali na lalakas ang loob nyan, kaya nga po, sa tingin ko naman ang ating Pangulo ay makikinig sa iyong mismong mga rekomendasyon. Kahit na sabihin mong pinapakinggan mo, syempre commander-in-chief yan, natural lamang sayo yan, papakinggan mo, naniniwala sayo na kumpyansa sya sayo. Kung sinabi mong 'Mr. President, hindi siguro maganda muna, alam kong sumusweldo yan, bigyan natin ng ibang trabaho. Bakit natin bibigyan yan ng posisyon na liderato?'

Deal Rosa: On my part, your honor, take it as a challenege, pag binigyan ko ng tsansa ang taong ito na magtrabaho, then gumawa ng kalokokan, ako naman ang mananagot dyan, your honor. Please give me one more chance, pag gumawa pa ito ng kalokohan, I will take it personally against him, your honor.

Poe: Let me just make it clear, kayo po ay hindi nagrekomenda sa Presidente na huwag munang bigyan ng assignment ito na katulad nyan?

Del Rosa: Napag-usapan namin, I really point out to him na mukhang mainit pa ang issue, baka pwedeng maya-maya na. He told me, everytime na lalabas sya sa media, your honor, lagi nyang sinasabing 'pabalikin yan, patrabahuhin na yan,' pag nagkikita kami, 'sayang ang mga tao na yan, walang ginagawa.' Ako naman, I take it as an order from my boss, although hindi nya directly sinasabi na ilagay mo doon, pabalikin mo doon, I'm just taking hints from his pronouncements, your honor. I talked to the director for CIDG, kung walang nagba-bar satin, technically, ire-assign natin ito sa ganitong puwesto, patrabahuhin natin. Pag ito pa ay gumawa ng another kalokohan, your honor, I will take it personally.

Poe: Bakit hindi nyo ilagay sa HPG muna?

Dela Rosa: Pareho lang yun, your honor, kung gusto talagang mangotong, kung gusto talagang magloko, makakagawa.

Poe: Pero lalo na doon sa direktang may magagawa...Ito'y malinaw na natutunan ko dito: unang-una, na sumusunod ka lang sa tingin mong gusto ng Pangulo, pero hindi mo naman binigyan ng teknikal na stratehiya, kung paano ma-rereform, kung saan mo ilalagay. Inisip lang ninyo, 'may bakante doon, sayang, sumusweldo.' Importante talaga na kahit na, syempre, commander-in-chief mo yung Pangulo, nakikita naman natin na napakahalaga ng inyong rekomendasyon. Sa tingin ko, pakikinggan ka nun. Maraming salamat din sa IAS, bigyan nyo naman ng konting suporta yung IAS, kasi kung ano yung rekomendasyon, tapos ma-ooverturn lang, bakit pa yan gaganahan sa trabaho? Talagang dapat ma-review natin ang kapangyarihan ng IAS, mas palakasin pa.

Dela Rosa: Wala po akong binago doon sa recommendation ng IAS. Kung ano ang recommendation nila on that particular case, I signed it wholeheartedly, your honor.

Poe: DOJ lang talaga ang nagkaroon ng desisyon, yung ating prosecutor. Totoo ba na yung ibang fiscal sa Luzon, bigla na lang nalilipat sa Mindanao, hindi voluntarily? Mayroon bang dahilan? Mayroon ba silang mga kaso na dahil dito sa nangyari?

Acting Prosecutor Gen. Jorge Catalan : Totoo naman po na may mga nalipat po sa ibang istasyon at kagaya po ng nasabi ninyo, yung mga pangalan po nila, ina-allow naman po ito ng Section 19 ng National Prosecution Service na they can be transferred sa assignment po sa ibang istasyon, although, must not exceed 3 months and kung mag-exceed ng 3 months it has to be given in writing po.

Poe: Pero I would like to know, from the original panel that gave the decision of murder, mayroon ba sa kanila ang na-transfer sa ibang lugar o na-demote o tinakot?

Catalan: Wala naman po, your honor.

Poe: Ma'am, paki-explain lang, i-eksplika ninyo ito, not so much so that the lawyers can understand the point of view pero para sa ating mga kababayan, bakit ninyo minabuti o pinili na dapat murder at hindi homicide? Paki-explain po ang diperensya nun na maiintindihan ng mga kababayan? Bakit murder? And do you stand by that decision?

Alejo: Kasi po ma'am, unang una po, yung pagkaka-secure po ng search warrant, kasi po parang ang tingin po namin, baka irregular kasi po nandoon na po sila sa government facility and yet kailangan pa nilang mag-secure ng search warrant. Kapag po naman nakakulong ang isang tao at any time of the day pwede naman po silang puntahan ng mga authorities doon sa detention center, at least i-relay po kung ano ang nilalaman o kung ano ang ginagawa nila doon sa kulungan nila. Ngayon po, kapag hindi po naman ganun ang pangyayari, ibig sabihin lang po, hindi competent or efficient ang authorities doon sa detention center. Bakit po ba kinakailangan mag-issue ng search warrant? Ngayon pangalawa po, tungkol po doon sa evident premeditation, nagkaroon po kami ng findings ng evident premeditation, kasi po nagkaroon naman ng briefing bago naman po nangyari itong insidente na ito. Although ine-emphasize po ni Marcos na ang sabi niya wala daw masasaktan at mamamatay. We found also for treachery, kasi po although ang sabi sa search warrant ay anytime of the day or night, alas-3 po ng madaling araw, government detention facility po iyan. Siguro naman po wala namang untoward incident na mangyayari sa isang government detention facility na kinakailangan pa po na mag-search ng madaling araw po. Tapos po, yung dami po ng personnel na pumasok, they had to force their way in, to the point of destroying the locks of the jail, and then they had to remove the arms of the augmentation team. Ito pong augmentation team, mga kabaro po nila ito coming from the Philippine National Police. Siguro nagtataka lang po kami sa halip na sabihin nila na tulungan ninyo kami, baka may totoong baril diyan or what, dinisarm po sila. Tapos pina-face the wall to the point that one of them urinated in his pants sa takot po dahil nakatutok po yung baril sa kanila. And then there were two teams, the other one was securing yung parang outer perimeter and then yung the other one sila yung pumasok sa loob. Tapos po based also on the statement of an inmate na...nandoon po yung burst ng gunfire. So para pong orchestrated na daw and also on the basis of the sworn statement of Colonel Marcos admitting to the fact that he was just around the vicinity coordinating with his men, so we had no recourse but to say there was conspiracy po. That's the factual basis of the search warrant po, yung kay Mr. Olendan, sabi niya 'itong date na ito na nandoon ako, nakita ko nagrerepack ng shabu, may baril. On that particular day po may nag-execute ng judicial affidavit doon sa assistant principal ng Leyte National High School, which is more than 100 kilometers away from the facility, saying that he was there and that he was hired as a janitor or a carpenter who was doing something and yung attendance po nila biometrics. So hindi po pwedeng i-fake yung attendance nun, ibig sabihin po nagsisinungaling siya nung sinabi niya na nagpunta siya doon that's why we recommended that the information for perjury be filed against him. Tapos yun pong mga kasamahan niya na karpintero also testified to the fact that he was with them on that particular time of the day. Then the assistant principal said that it was highly improbable that he could drop by the jail facility because it was more than 100 kilometers away. So parang ang lumalabas po parang na-orchestrate o napagplanuhan hence there was evidence of premeditation and there was treachery dahil idinevise niya pagpasok doon di-disarmahan yung, sa totoo lang kabaro mo sila, dapat tutulungan mo sila, yung augmentation team di po ba. They had to destroy everything, even the matter of the removal of the CCTVs, from what we understood that there were CCTVs functioning because according to the sworn statement of the jail guards, they saw the patrol cars coming through the CCTV. So it means that the--

Sen. Panfilo Lacson: I just hope that Usec. Orceo is listening to your narration of facts. Kasi iba yung appreciation niya ng facts. That's the reason why he downgraded murder to homicide. And as an aside, I'd like to state here that we take our hats off to you and the members of the panel of prosecutors for being very professional. You have maintained being professional up to this very moment, even if you are in front of high officials of the DOJ, you are still standing your ground and defending your information.

Poe: Mr. Chair I think a good signal that the DOJ can give here, a good message is to actually promote them for something that has already been available since 2010. That would be--

Lacson: We will request Sec. to talk to Sec. Aguirre to promote--

Poe: Yes. First, let me thank you for clarifying. Pati yung tawag na magpadala kayo ng SOCO dito, hindi pa nga nangyayari 'di ba, may mga ganoong kwento. So before I end, Atty. Demos of the NBI, you stand by your decision that it is murder, correct? Director Gierran?

NBI Director Dante Gierran: I have already indicated earlier that we stand by murder.

Poe: Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, again I reiterate that with your Senate findings. Your unbiased hearing, the NBI, yung mismong unang team ng DOJ at yung IAS, lahat sila murder ang tinuturo. Thank you Mr. Chair.

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