Transcript of Senator Nancy Binay's Interview on ANC's Headstart (hosted by Karen Davila/Mike Navallo)

Mike Navallo (Q): Senator, I know that you are on quarantine, so thank you for joining us today. But first, let me ask you, how are you today?

Sen. Nancy Binay-Angeles (SNBA): I'm okay. Tomorrow, my whole family will be swabbed, so, hopefully, we're praying for favorable results.

Q: How is your mother? I understand you issued a press release about her testing positive.

SNBA: Siguro, unang-una, Atty. Mike, gusto kong magpasalamat doon sa lahat ng nagdasal for my mom. She's getting better, hopefully makabalik na ulit siya dito sa bahay namin.

Q: Nabanggit mo nga sa press release, mo, Senator, na kailangan seryosohin ang Covid, because you've been very careful, I suppose, even your mother, as a doctor, very careful. How do you think that happened, any idea how she might have contracted the virus?

SNBA: Actually, up to now, we're still trying to figure out dahil hindi talaga lumalabas ang mother ko, and then ang household staff namin naka-bubble. So still a mystery.

Question: I guess for most of this pandemic, Sen. Nancy, talagang mystery how this coronavirus spreads. The earlier indications were that these were distributed through droplets, tapos biglang pwedeng airborne na rin. But really, how about our efforts in determining which portions of our society are infected with the coronavirus. You've heard the report of Raphael Bosana earlier—one year na but still there are problems with testing, contact tracing. I want to get your thoughts about how do we improve at this point our testing and contact tracing.

SNBA: Unang una, katulad nga ng nabanggit sa report kanina, what's important is case finding. And how do we do that? We start with testing, tracing, and then getting the right treatment. Iyon nga 'yung 3Ts na tinatawag nila. Siguro, Mike, cite ko lang isang example based from my own experience. I know of somebody na mayroon siyang symptoms, he was coughing and may slight fever, pero hindi siya makapagpa-test kasi nga namamahalan siya. Ang Red Cross, it's already 3,800. Sa mga kababayan natin na barely making it, magbabayad ka pa sa isang test na hindi ka rin naman sigurado kung positive, 'di ba. So ako na ang nag-volunteer, sige magpa-test na kayo I will shoulder your testing, and true enough, nag-positive 'yung tao. But bago niya nalaman na positive siya, he went back to work. So 'di ba, can you just imagine ang spread na nangyari. Kasi isa din 'yun sa kailangan nating pag-aralan. Marami akong naririnig na ang iba natatakot rin magpa-test kasi they can't afford not to go to work. Apparently ang mga businesses, kapag nagkasakit ka from Covid, ide-deduct nila from your sick leave, and then kapag ubos na ang sick leave mo, no work, no pay ka. Alam naman nating it takes a long time for one to recover from this illness. Iyong iba 11 day, I think kailangan mo tapusin ang 14 days, 'di ba, and it doesn't necessarily mean na magaling ka na after 14 days, it can even go for months na hindi ka pa talaga fully recovered. So how do we provide assistance and how do we tell them na it's okay, magpagamot kayo, magpa-test kayo kasi mayroon pa rin naman kayong makukuha, mayroon pa rin kayong ayuda na makukuha for your family to buy food, to buy their basic necessities.

Q: And of particular concern is testing, and i-relate ko dito ang genome sequencing, because up until now we still have 750 capacity. That's really, many experts are saying that's really low, 750 samples tested every week, when the latest one, more than 400 of that sample actually tested positive for the delta variant. So the question is, are we now experiencing delta variant as the predominant strain here in the country, but you heard the official from the DOH saying, "we can't say that because our sample is biased, we're looking at positive areas that might lead to delta." So what do you make of this? How can we improve this? 100 million to increase their capacity?

SNBA: Para sa akin kasi, Mike, ayun nga may kakulangan tayo sa genome sequencing, but lately the figures have been coming out na dumadami ang delta. Since may kakulangan tayo, baka it's better to just assume na it's there, and work around or find a solution na may delta na talaga, hindi iyong iniisip mo pa kung mayroon o wala. 'Di ba? Sa akin nga, let's always be one step ahead. Kung hindi tayo sure na nandito na ang delta, better to assume na it's there, because ibig sabihin noon ang gagawin nating strategy would already solve the problem even before it's confirmed. Parang for me ganoon ang mindset. And siguro babalikan ko lang ang testing. Alam ko may mga LGU na nagpo-provide sila ng free testing, you can just walk in sa isang facility and get tested. But ang national government parang nag-ningas cogon sa testing. If you remember they opened that mega swabbing facility. But I think sarado na ang mga mega swabbing. Dapat tuloy-tuloy, Covid is still here, so hindi pwede iyong parang mago-open tayo ng mega swabbing, tapos if medyo okay na ulit ang numbers, close, tapos start all over again, magbi-build na naman ng facility. So for me dapat sustained. Sustained ang testing, sustained ang contact tracing, and siyempre iyong treating.

Q: Sen. Nancy wala bang magagawa doon sa hinihingi ng Philippine Genome Center na 100 million to expand its capacity?

SNBA: Ah ako, we will make sure—alam naman natin the budget process is already starting. So we will make sure that we will equip ang mga agencies like the Genome Center. Nakakalungkot nga, Mike, na ang RITM, which I consider as one of the frontliners in our battle against Covid, iyong reference laboratories na budget nila, was even decreased by 70 million. Eh remember hindi lang Covid ang kalaban natin, marami pa tayong mga diseases na kailangan ma-discover, and this agency whose primary function is to find itong mga possible diseases and viruses ay binawasan pa natin ng pondo. This is the same agency, in spite of their small budget, they discovered that polio is back. Kaya nga nagkaroon ng intensive campaign to vaccinate against polio.

Q: And we will get to talk about the budget later on in the program, Sen. Nancy. But for now, balikan ko lang sa contact tracing, we have an admission na apparently after a year, the StaySafe app is not working.

SNBA: Iyon na nga. At the beginning pa lang, first hearing namin sa Senate, this has already been a problem. Remember when I asked doon sa eroplano na may nag-positive kung na-contact trace na nila ang mga kasama ng nag-positive, and apparently, hindi pa nila nako-contact trace. It's been more than a year, we're still with the same problem, and we're not using technology in contact tracing. Nakakainggit, but syempre we can't compare ourselves to the likes of Singapore. Sa Singapore, isipin mo may isang case sila na-contact trace nila na ang common denominator is one mall. So anong ginawa nila? They made an announcement na kung sino man ang nasa mall na ito at this given day and time, you can go to this place and have yourself tested. Wala, at the moment, nakakalungkot dahil wala pa tayong ganoong capability.

Q: Actually in some countries, you have apps already on the phone, na nakalagay na doon ang quarantine status mo. Are you green, say, kung clear ka, red if you're supposed to be quarantining. And if the app detects that you were in proximity, or close to someone na supposedly dapat naka-quarantine, you will be alerted, your quarantine status will also change. So that makes it easier for the government actually to monitor. Is that really impossible to implement in the Philippines?

SNBA: Parang at the moment, ewan ko, there's always that hindrance in using technology for contact tracing.

Q: Pero lahat naman may cell phone.

SNBA: Lahat nga may cell phone, pero kasi sinasabi nila, it's because of the data privacy. Pero you know, if there's legislation needed to cure this problem, ano lang naman, eh, they just have to propose it to us, pagaaralan natin. But at the moment parang walang ganoong effort.

Q: Now let me go to other problems, other concerns with the Department of Health. We have salaries of workers being really the brunt of contention. You have some workers actually protesting because they haven't received either their salaries or their risk allowances. So you have the release yesterday of 300 million pesos for frontliners, that means about 5,000. Is that enough?

SNBA: Well, they deserve more. If you compare nga ang salaries ng mga health workers abroad, ang layo from what we're giving them. And 'di ba they're just asking for minimal amount. Kami in Congress we did our part. When the executive asked us to Bayanihan 1 and 2 kung saan may provision to provide them extra income, we did it. But iyon na naman, pagdating sa implementation ng executive, nandoon na naman ang bottleneck. And for me, hindi ko maintindihan why this is happening, why there is no sense of urgency.

Q: And iyong context na last year, despite the budget allotted to the DOH, you have 11+ billion pesos which are actually unspent, and you have workers now saying why are you not giving us our benefits. So is this really a question of inefficiency? Is it the bureaucracy, is there a system there that should change to address this?

SNBA: I guess it's also, isa na ang focus. Parang the focus against fighting or equipping ang frontliners natin is not there. Baka dapat kasi, for me ha, ang mindset is we are at war. If there is a war against drugs, dapat ang focus natin war against Covid. And itong mga health workers natin, itong mga nurses natin, sila ang army natin, eh. So dapat sila iyong ine-equip natin, dapat sila ang aalagaan natin to fight this battle.

Q: And there seems to be confusion as to who is covered by the recent release. And then you also have an issue with meal and transportation allowance, health insurance. Have you looked into this?

SNBA: Actually kasi I'm not a member of the blue ribbon committee. But I think this is now being tackled during the hearing. And as I've mentioned, it's now the budget season, ito ang mga items na titignan natin.

Q: And we were talking about, who are we supposed to make responsible for all these things? We have DOH Sec. Francisco Duque getting emotionally affected by all the criticisms that's been hurled against the DOH, from spending to Covid response. But who else is there to blame?

SNBA: I don't know. But you know, I've voiced out naman my opinion that maybe Sec. Duque is not the right person to lead our fight against Covid. But you know, at the end of the day, he serves at the pleasure of the presiden, 'di ba? So what can we do, just wait kung talagang tatanggapin ni Presidente kung magre-resign siya.

Q: There hasn't been any indication that he's resigning. The president did say if magre-resign siya tatanggapin ko. That's a marked difference from earlier pronouncements that he's standing by Duque. Are you optimistic that if that happens the president will really accept the resignation of Sec. Duque?

SNBA: Actually question ko nga, Mike, is there such a thing as involuntary resignation?

Q: Involuntary resignation you get fired.

SNBA: Yeah. Once you hand your resignation that's it. Whether it's voluntary, it's resignation. Once nag-submit si Sec. Duque ng resignation niya, I would assume based sa statement ni presidente he would accept it. And it already came from him na twice na pala nag-offer si Sec. Duque ng resignation. So let's see if he'll do it again.

Q: The question though is if you change the health chief at this point, midway through the pandemic, can it help? Or will it worsen the situation?

SNBA: Well at this point kung hindi talaga nagfa-function ang the one in charge, 'di ba maybe we're better off getting another person to head the battle. Kumbaga, babalikan ko, sa isang giyera, marami namang generals diyan, eh. And if this general is not doing his job, there's another general who can do it better, probably.

Q: Another controversy involving the DOH, iyong transfer of 42 billion pesos of funds to the DBM for the procurement of face shields, masks, which were reportedly overpriced. And this procurement not supported supposedly by memorandum of agreement. You've heard explanations given by former Usec. Christopher Lao. Are you satisfied?

SNBA: Mike ako kasi I don't attend the hearing, eh, so I only get the information from what I read or watch in the news. But you know at the end of the day, isa din issue sa amin 'yan because it's not just DOH who's doing that, iyong nililipat nila ang procurement nila sa DBM-PS or even PITC, and then natutulog ang pera doon eh. For example, iyong sa Bureau of Fire Protection, pagtayo ng fire stations, instead of them implementing it, they transferred it to PITC. So ang ganyang sistema it's something us in Congress should probably correct na talagang mayroon lang parameters kung ano ang pwedeng i-bid out at ilipat sa DBM-PS or even PITC.

Q: This matter became an issue because of the proximity supposedly of former Usec. Lao to Sen. Bong Go, who's an aide of the president. There seems to be a perception na, nililipat ba ang pera sa DBM para they can control 42, 41 billion pesos in purchase of this really important medical supplies in the middle of the pandemic. What would you say to that?

SNBA: That I don't have a personal knowledge. Pero ang nakapagtataka lang kasi, doon sa DBM-PS, usually they procure ang mga common supplies like ballpen, bond paper, na everybody in government uses it. Weird lang nga is ang mga PPE, mga face mask face shield, hindi naman 'yan common supplies, so how come it was transferred to DBM-PS wherein the process would take longer kasi magpapabalik-balik pa sila doon sa what's inside the bidding document, kung anong klaseng face mask, face shield, anong standard. So isa pang delay iyon sa pagsu-supply. Iyon nga eh, we're all wondering why there's a need to transfer to DBM-PS.

Q: Is there something fishy with the resignation, I mean sudden exit, nobody knew that Lao was no longer with DBM-PS and then you have DBM Sec. Wendell Avisado resigning in the midst, or I don't know if it has something to do with the COA report but certainly it happened while the COA reports were coming out.

SNBA: I don't know. Maybe in the next hearing that is something that would be good to ask, why si Usec Lao suddenly resigned. Kasi 'di ba si Sec. Wendell, he said na because of Covid, he needs to rest. Well, technically, he had a reason why he resigned. But si Usec wala yata akong narinig na explanation why he left his office in the middle of a pandemic, and in the middle of a budget season.

Q: And before we go to a break let me just ask a final question on this one. The end result of that, of the DBM procuring these face shields, masks, for the DOH is that supposedly they bought it at a high price. The supplies are now sitting at depots because they can't be sold to units of the DOH because of the high price. Is there really a justification? Ang sinasabi lang nila, at that time kasi hindi pa daw common ang face shield kaya mas mataas pa ang price at that time. Is that enough justification for you?

SNBA: I think that's not enough excuse. Kasi for me, once you procured it, dapat na-release mo na iyan doon sa concerned agency because the need for that was yesterday, not today. So how come it's still with them? Eh dapat during the need for that was at the start of when it was procured, dapat pagka-deliver niyan out kaagad yan eh. So bakit nandiyan pa rin siya?

Q: Can we just go back to a bit of an issue with PhilHealth because we now have the PhilHealth coming out with this circular saying they are withholding payment—there are some fraudulent activities that they're still investigating. So now you have this development of PhilHealth owing public and private hospitals something like P86 billion. What do you make of this, and can the PhilHealth actually unilaterally do this?

SNBA: Well, number 1, when we passed the Universal Health Care law, parang naglagay kami doon ng criteria for the president of PhilHealth. And number 1 is ang medical background. But you know, sad to say, si Pres. Dante Gierran came from NBI. So iyong mindset niya, maybe ang mindset niya is more on investigating fraud, or kumbaga parang nandoon na na kailangan may imbestigahan, mayroong may kasalanan. But in this time na mayroon tayong pandemic, we should look at each other not as enemies, but we're all fighting against one enemy, which is Covid. Kaya for me ang fear ko is baka ang mga private hospitals would end up requiring itong mga patients to pay first and then bahala na kayo maghabol sa PhilHealth because what's important for them is also for the hospitals to survive. Paano nila masusustain ang mga hospital nila kung wala na silang sufficient funds to sustain it.

Q: The rules actually say that they have to pay it within 60 days, but there's an admission already from PhilHealth that it could take months for them to actually process the claims, particularly when the pandemic happened. So apparently this has already been a concern before the pandemic, but with the pandemic happening, lumala.

SNBA: And more than that, Mike, ha, kasi narinig ko rin sa news 'di ba parang sinabi ng PhilHealth maliit na lang ang utang nila, I guess it's like 13 billion, kasi mayroon silang portion na sinasabi na may percentage doon na hindi nila babayaran. That amount I do not know the exact figures, but apparently mayroon doon sa kine-claim nitong mga hospital na hindi na talaga babayaran ng PhilHealth. So baka 'yan maging isang factor din sa mga hospitals na since marami kayong nate-turn daw sa mga pinare-reimburse namin, baka better it's just the patient who will reimburse it.

Q: So ito ba ang magiging effect, Sen., if the threat of some hospitals of disengaging from PhilHealth will happen, is this the effect, mapapasa ang burden sa mga patients to seek reimbursement from PhilHealth themselves?

SNBA: Yeah. Or maghanap na lang sila kung saan sila pwedeng kumuha muna ng pambayad sa hospital bill nila. That will be the end result kung mag-disengage itong mga private hospitals kasi nga, somebody has to pay for those hospital bills, whether it's PhilHealth or the patients themselves. Hindi naman talaga 100 percent, hindi naman charity itong mga private hospitals natin, 'di ba.

Q: Iyon na nga sinasabi nila, maaapektuhan din if they don't have enough buffer, they're operations will also be affected, they can't expand their hospital beds, their personnel because they don't have the funds.

SNBA: That will be the consequence of not getting paid at the right time and at the right amount.

Q: Earlier you talked about treating Covid as an enemy. Your observation that the mindset ni PhilHealth Pres. Gierran is to investigate fraud. Doesn't that observation also extend to the whole response the government is taking against the pandemic, we have generals on top of your Covid response.

SNBA: Actually, come to think of it, oo nga ano kasi ang mga czar natin most of them are generals. Iyong czar natin for contact tracing was a general, si Sec. Galvez din. But siguro noong in-appoint sila ni presidente, ang mindset niya siguro is since generals sila they'll treat it like a war. But parang hindi ganoon ang mindset na nila. I don't know, maybe it's because retired na rin sila, baka hindi na ganoon ang orientation. Mike, let's also remember na this is a health problem, eh. So dapat for me it should be a combination of health, dapat malaki doon sa mga generals natin are coming from the health sector.

Q: Does this mindset also extend to the budgeting for next year? Because you've flagged na binawasan ang budget for RITM which is supposedly important in detecting infectious diseases, and then tinaasan ang budget ng NTF-ELCAC by 12, 11 billion, so you now have a proposed budget for NTF-ELCAC of 28 billion pesos. You have flagged this. What do you intend to do with this? Are you going to press DBM bakit ganito ang proposal?

SNBA: Well, 'yan. Well, number 1, we will review first kung ano na bang nangyari doon sa 16 billion that was allocated for ELCAC if this was properly used. And then ang nakakataka lang, how come there's a need to increase ang budget ng ELCAC to 28 billion when, para sa akin kasi kumbaga let us all focus our resources and energy in fighting Covid. 'Yun ang number 1 enemy. I'm not saying na hindi natin dapat bigyan ng solution ang problema natin against insurgency, but at the moment what's important is for us to win the battle against Covid.

Q: There are concerns raised because ang nangyayari kasi the budget for barangay development is given to barangays who are already cleared of communist insurgency. And there are concerns because the barangay will determine what the project will be for those funds, 20 milion pesos. There are concerns of patronage politics. Are you seeing this as a possible issue should the NTF-ELCAC be granted with a 28-billion budget?

SNBA: Actually, Mike, during the budget deliberation last year, I proposed an amendment, I submitted an amendment to take out the 16 billion and give a portion of that for the rehabilitation of Taal volcano victims kasi for this year's budget there's no specific item for the rehabilitation, among others. Iyon ang parang ni-reallocate ko. But siyempre, ano naman ito, I am just one, it's just one amendment, at the end of the day it's the whole body who will agree and approve it, 'di ba. Kasi during the committee hearing when we were discussing this fund, I saw na there's a double allocation. I don't know if you're familiar with the Last Mile school program of the DepEd. So mayroon silang program where they build schools sa mga GIDA, mga geographically isolated areas. And when they submitted the list of barangays, chineck ko with the list of DepEd, apparently may mga barangay doon na naka-line up na to receive schools, eh kasama doon sa menu ng 20 million is for them to build schools or farm to market roads. We also asked DA to submit ang listing nila ng farm to market and we saw na may double allocation. We wanted to avoid that kasi nga alam naman natin na kulang ang resources and siguro magandang tingnan ngayon during this budget nga kung saan na naman nila in-allocate ang 28 billion.

Q: And what about the budget that's being asked by the DOH, because they're asking for about roughly 250 billion pesos budget for next year. How likely is it that this would be granted considering we have billions of funds of unspent, unobligated funds this year?

SNBA: Actually, alam mo ever since I became a senator in 2013, laging problema ang absorptive capacity of different agencies, and I'm not just singling out DOH, marami tayong agencies na talagang hindi nila nagagastos ang hinihingi nilang budget. Tignan natin kung saan ba talaga ang inefficiency when it comes to spending.

Q: Let me now shift to more recent issues. We've heard the president last night saying not to believe these graft investigations and that if ever, if he becomes vice president, he himself will audit the Commission on Audit. What are your thoughts on this?

SNBA: Siguro coming from experience, as a daughter of a former vice president, I don't think function ng vice president, hindi kasama sa powers and function ng vice president ang mag-audit. That power was given specifically to COA. Kaya kahit vice president na siya I don't think he can do that na siya mismo ang mag-audit. But doon sa isang statement niya na auditing COA, I also raised the same issue in one of the budget hearings, na I asked nga COA, "who audits you?" and apparently, they audit themselves. So if I remember it correctly, nagkaroon ng mga proposals in Congress to create another independent body to probably audit COA kasi nga parang may conflict iyon that they audit themselves. But if I remember it during the hearing sinasabi nila na kahit naman daw sila, nagkakaroon ng disallowance.

Q: What do you make of the president's reaction parang allergic to being flagged by COA when you know, he has projected that he was really a strong anti-corruption candidate when he was running, and even as president he said eradicating corruption is his policy, and in fact he created several bodies against corruption, and now you have his reactions to the COA audit?

SNBA: Siguro I can understand where the president is coming from. Somebody, alam naman natin ang pinagdaanan ng pamilya ko, 'di ba iyong how the COA audit was used against us to ruin my family. And for me talaga naman I think it's high time for us to review ang system that is being used by COA, dahil mayroon naman talaga silang audit findings na hindi na timely, hindi na siya, it doesn't go with the times anymore. Katulad ngayon, 'di ba we're shifting to digital, hindi pa yata nila na-incorporate iyon. For example, 'yung pagbili ng ticket, mga air tickets na ginagamit ng different offices. You can't do it online, pero alam naman natin na very common na ngayon that you can do online booking, 'di ba, but hindi pa siya nagiging bahagi, as part of procurement, ang online system. So there's really a need to kumbaga update COA. And just to add, kasi talaga namang totoo na nade-delay talaga ang procurement. I can speak from experience. Like for example, by the time na makabili ka ng computer, maayos 'yung papel, wala na, ubos na ang stock or outdated na ang bibilhin mo because of COA rules. And example, kasi head ako ng Committee on Science and Tech, isa doon sa complaint, we cannot upgrade our laboratories kasi nga, how can you get three bidders when there's not even a supplier here, you have to procure it abroad? So ang mga ganoong kailangan baguhin.

Q: And Sen. Nancy, we've been talking about funds, paano ginastos ang funds, some have been flagged, kulang ng pondo, or some have actually been unspent. And you have Pres. Duterte last night saying kailangan natin ng marami pang pera, so therefore we will allow gambling in Boracay. Despite having said earlier na hindi pwede ang gambling sa Boracay. What do you make of it?

SNBA: Well, as chair also of the Committee on Tourism, syempre I am totally against na ibalik ang gambling sa Boracay. Hindi iyon ang type of tourist that we want in Boracay. May ibang pwede namang pagkunan ng pera. But more than that, for me it's how you spend eh. 'Di ba kung kahit gaano kalaki ang revenue if we're not spending it right, if we're not spending it properly, sayang lang din ang pondo.

Q: And of course, you already have these talks about possible casino operations in Boracay during the closure of Boracay itself. This is not the first time it's happened. You now have the president saying finally he is going to give the go-signal. Are there any indications that this has been planned all along?

SNBA: I do not know. But I'm hoping na hindi matuloy ang ganyang plano na papasukin ang gambling sa Boracay. There are other ways to raise revenue, and alam naman natin, ang Boracay is crown jewel 'yan ng ating tourism. And sayang naman the way the island was brought back kung papayagan natin itong gambling.

Q: Are you going to look into this as chair of the Committee on Tourism?

SNBA: Yes, that is something that we can look at. Siguro we can ask the Dept. of Finance or even Neda, ano ba talaga ang nakikita ninyong revenue at bakit kailangang ibalik itong gambling sa Boracay? I'm also wondering who advised the president na option ang pagbalik ng gambling sa Boracay, and I don't think ang income na makukuha doon sa gambling sa Boracay would be sufficient revenue para magamit ng government.

Q: Thank you so much for your time with us today, Sen. Nancy Binay. We've covered a lot of topics, and thank you for answering all the questions despite being on isolation.

SNBA: Thank you, Atty. Mike, and stay safe.