SENATOR RONALD "BATO" DELA ROSA TRANSCRIPT - Blue Ribbon Committee
(September 6, 2022)

Agenda: Privilege Speech of Senate President Juan Miguel "Migz" F. Zubiri titled "Fiasco Behind Sugar Order No. 4", delivered on August 15, 2022

40:29 -42:03
Sen. Dela Rosa: Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you. With due respect to our majority leader Sen. Koko Pimentel, do not doubt our integrity when we conduct our executive session because kasama namin dito si Deputy Minority Leader, si Sen. Risa Hontiveros so wala pong mangyayaring milagro dito sa gagawin naming executive session, Your Honor, Minority Leader. And kahit na siguro sabihin mo na you are with the minority block, we are with the majority block but siguro tayo'y nagkaisa. We are in unison when we say that we want to preserve the integrity of the Senate as an institution, Your Honor, minority leader, so 'wag po kayong mag-alala, very quick lang ito. Purely administrative lang itong gagawin ni Chairman natin at andito po kami. Magkaisa tayo. Hindi man tayo magkakahiwalay dito. 'Pag gusto nating respetuhin 'yung ating Senado as the last bastion of democracy, magkaisa po tayo dito whether minority ka or majority kami, magkaisa tayo kaya 'wag po kayong mag-alala. For the benefit of the viewing public, we will do this with utmost sincerity and loyalty to our people. That's all, Mr. Chairman.

1:06:39 -1:30:22
Sen. Dela Rosa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Director. Director, you have *** director?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Dela Rosa: My question is sa mga naganap na raid ng mga warehouses na naglalaman ng sugar, meron na ba na nakasuhan ng violation of the Price Act on illegal acts of price manipulation through hoarding? Kung meron man, please give us an update sa status ng mga kaso na 'yon.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Consumer Protection Group is part of the subtask group on economic intelligence that's only working with the Department of Agriculture and I'm aware that last August 26 and August 18, there were raids conducted on sugar warehouses but it appears that based on the documents that I have with me, the cases have yet to be filed on these instances.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Say again for the record, there are no cases filed?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Few minutes, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Sige, magpatulong ka diyan sa mga kasamahan mo. Maghanap ka ng record. While looking for the answers for that question, sagutin mo na lang ito. During itong mga raids na ginawa ng Customs, raids or visitations as they call it, nag-coordinate ba sila sa inyo? Kasama ba kayo sa mga raids na ginawa ng Customs? Itong latest lang, pertaining to raids on sugar warehouses. Kasama ba kayo, hindi?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: For my personal knowledge, Sir, I cannot answer that because my bureau is the Consumer Policy Advocacy Bureau, Mr. Chair. The raids done would be by the Fair Trade Enforcement Bureau. If ever there would be coordination between the subtask group on Economic Intelligence. It will be the Fair Trade Enforcement Bureau that will participate in the raids.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Kaya nga. Tinatanong ko kung meron o wala. You cannot answer that question, yes or no?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: I can answer, Mr. Chair that based on the records, our undersecretary Atty. Ruth Castelo was present during the raids in August in Cavite and Bulacan but I have no record, Mr. Chair, of DTI's participation in the Subic... Was it Subic, Mr. Chair?

Sen. Dela Rosa: Kaya nga, kaya nga. Ganito ha, DTI. Kung walang nakasuhan ng hoarding, despite the raids na ginawa ng Bureau of Customs in coordination with DTI, dahil alam naman talaga natin na pagdating sa kaso ng hoarding, 'yung violation on the Price Act or RA 7581, dapat kayo talaga ang OPR niyan. Customs is only limited doon sa anti-smuggling, smuggling cases. Pero sa hoarding cases, kayo dapat mag-take over. Kaya it's very important that during the raids being conducted by Customs, meron kayong representative at sinabi mo nga, may kasama doon na taga-DTI. Now, ilang days na ang nagdaan, kaya ko tinatanong ito kung nakapag-file na ba kayo ng kaso dito sa AntiHoarding Law or 'yung Price Act natin. Meron na ba kayong nafile-an ng kaso dahil kung walang kayong na-file na kaso, meaning there's no hoarding. So kung walang hoarding, nako-confirm natin na talagang there is sugar shortage. Hindi hoarding 'yung nangyayari na, 'yung nakikita natin na mga sako-sakong bigas doon na sabi ni Senate President Zubiri na halata talaga na hino-hoard ito dahil ang dami. Pero kayo walang na-file-an ng kaso, ibig sabihin kono-confirm ninyo na merong hoarding? So i-rephrase ko 'yung question, is there hoarding na nangyayari ngayon relative to the sugar fiasco? Because you're DTI. You will be the one to determine whether there is hoarding or not. The Customs cannot say na merong hoarding o wala. It is you, DTI, ang mag-conduct ng investigation and will come up with a conclusion whether there is really hoarding or there's none.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me clarify, Mr. Chair, that under the Price Act, there are a number of implementing agencies. For the agricultural products, it will be the Department of Agriculture. For medicines and medical devices, it's the Department of Health. For forest products, it's the DENR, and all other products that are not under jurisdiction of those I mentioned will be under the DTI. So in this case, Mr. Chair, if the product in question was the sugar, that is under the Department of Agriculture's jurisdiction to file for cases of hoarding, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Are you sure gano'n ang nangyayari?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair. It's under.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Ako, hindi ako abogado ha, pero I would like to advise you to go back to this law. Basahin niyo kung sinong OPR nito. Sino ang office of primary responsibility when it comes to hoarding? Tingnan mo. It's very clear na DTI ang sinasabi dito. Kayo palagi ang tinuturo sa batas pagdating sa hoarding. This is *** price manipulation. So this is your area. Dapat kayo ang magsabi nito. Anyway, kung hindi mo masagot 'yan, tanungin ko na lang 'yung DA. Ang DA ba, kasama sa raid nito ng Customs?

Sen. Tolentino: Is there a Department of Agriculture representative present or Former Undersecretary Sebastian, you can be seated here. Since you declared during the last hearing that you're not yet resigned or terminated from the Department of Agriculture but merely suspended, you're still part of the Department of Agriculture as an undersecretary.

Usec. Sebastian: I've been preventively suspended, Your Honors. I have not been able to go to the office since that time.

Sen. Tolentino: Yes, but what the good senator is asking is the role of the DA in your recollection, is that a role of the DA in terms of hoarding issue?

Usec. Sebastian: To my knowledge, Your Honor, before the issuance of SO4, there were inspections done by SRA and the DA in some of the warehouses. After that, Your Honor, I have no knowledge.

Sen. Tolentino: So you have a role? Right? DA has a role.

Usec. Sebastian: Yes, Your Honor. Especially SRA, Your Honor.

Sen. Dela Rosa: So ngayon, Usec. Sebastian, mahirap naman ito kasi sabihin mo naman na suspended ka. Sana sinong taga-DA diyan na nakasama doon sa mga raid na ginawa ng Customs kasi hugas kamay ang DTI eh when, in fact, this is hoarding. This is price manipulation. Bakit mo ipapasa sa DA? Sabihin mo porke't produkto 'yan ng agricultural product? I think regardless of the kind of product, whether it's agricultural, whether it's industrial or whether kung anu-anong product na 'yan, but still when it comes to price manipulation, that should be your turf, DTI.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The DTI, Mr. Chair, is only following the Price Act particularly on jurisdiction regarding Section 3. It stated there Section 3 Paragraph 3 on the implementing agency and the subparagraphs refers to the Department of Agriculture, Department of Health, Department of Environment and Natural Resources and then-

Sen. Dela Rosa: Kaya pala ganito, kung isang consumer, ako, ordinaryong consumer ako, bibili ako ng asukal, nagdoble ang presyo ng asukal, grabe kamahal. Saan ako magcomplain? Pupunta ako sa DA o sa DTI? Sige nga.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Mr. Chair, based on the Price Act, it's the Department of Agriculture that has jurisdiction over sugar. However, the DTI has a "No Wrong Door" policy-

Sen. Tolentino: What is that? No...?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: "No Wrong Door" policy.

Sen. Tolentino: What is "No Wrong Door" policy

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: If the consumer does not know where to go, we are welcoming the consumer to lodge the complaint with the DTI and then the DTI will assist the consumer on where to lodge the complaint, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Tolentino: If I may interject, Sen. Dela Rosa, so what you're saying is in terms of price monitoring, DTI has no role when it comes to sugar?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Only recently, Mr. Chair, the DTI has been monitoring the prices-

Sen. Tolentino: Only recently. How recent is recent?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Based on a directive, Mr. Chair, from the Office of the President.

Sen. Tolentino: So DTI talaga? Presyo eh. Presyo ng consumers. 'Di ba meron kayong Consumers Protection Board or something, 'di ba?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Consumers Protection Group, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Tolentino: So kayo talaga ang directly related sa consumers kaya tinatanong kayo ni Sen. Dela Rosa tungkol sa role ninyo so siguro don't cite those overlapping provisions of law. Kayo talaga 'yung sa consumers kasi kayo talaga 'yung nagdi-deal sa, kayo 'yung nagmo-monitor ng prices 'di ba?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair. We monitor prices on basic necessities-

Sen. Tolentino: 'Di ba basic necessity ang sugar?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: ...that are not within the jurisdiction of the other implementing agencies of the Price Act, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Hontiveros: Mr. Chair, follow-up, with the indulgence of Vice Chair Dela Rosa.

Sen. Tolentino: Go ahead, Sen. Hontiveros.

Sen. Hontiveros: Salamat, Mr. Chair. Salamat, Sen. Dela Rosa. Director Valdez, quick follow-up lang po du'n sa line of questioning ni Vice Chair Dela Rosa. In fact po, may kausap ako recently na dating gobernador sa isang probinsya, sabi niya, "Bakit no'ng gobernador ako, ang DTI would always be breathing down my neck?" Minsan lang may tumaas sa SRP ang isang produkto kahit asukal, tatanungin na ako, "Bakit ganyan?" So nagtataka rin siya, in line with the questioning of Vice Chair Dela Rosa, bakit habang tumataas 'yung presyo ng asukal, antahimik ng DTI? 'Yun lang po, Mr. Chair. Salamat, Vice Chair Dela Rosa.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Ito ha, bibigyan kita ng... On March 19, 2020, then DTI Secretary Ramon Lopez issued Memorandum Circular No. 20-07 entitled AntiHoarding and Anti-Panic Buying, in relation to the Price Act. So ano ngayon, paanong...?

Sen. Tolentino: Gaano katagal ka na sa DTI?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Since June of 2021, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Tolentino: Matagal na. So inabot mo itong order na 'to?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: That was before I assumed office--

Sen. Tolentino: Let me ano, let me reiterate that you're under oath. So kung iba 'yung sagot mo kanina, iba 'yung sagot mo ngayon, itama mo na ngayon.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Mr. Chair, the Anti-Panic Buying and Anti-Hoarding Circular issued by the DTI was to assist the Department of Health with regard to the purchasing of the alcohol products, the face masks during the pandemic, Mr. Chair. It was only an assistance.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Alam mo, Mr. Chair, this is a very sad reality na nangyayari sa ating gobyerno, particularly DTI. Klaruhin ko na lang sa inyo. Alam mo 'yung Chief PNP ako, itong issue about firecrackers, which according to law, ito'y dapat regulated by the Firearms and Explosives Office of the PNP. And yet, itong DTI, nakikiaalam. Gusto nilang mag-i-inspect doon sa mga, 'pag panahon ng pasko, nag-iinspect sila do'n sa mga firecrackers dahil nga firecrackers daw is within the turf pa daw ng DTI dahil pagdating sa market, pricing nanaman ang pag-uusapan, dapat makialam ang DTI. Eh ngayon, itong napaka, anong sabi mo kanina? Basic necessity, na sugar. Sugar ito, basic necessity. Eh talagang lahat nang tao nangangailangan ng sugar. Kahit na diabetic ka or hindi, talagang walang lasa 'yung pagkain kung walang sugar. Basic necessity. Kaya itong firecrackers at pyrotechnics, hindi ito basic necessity, luho na ito. Ito'y luho ng mga mayayaman during pasko nagpapaputok ng mga firecrackers, but still nakikialam kayo doon. Dito naman sa basic necessity, iwas pusoy kayo dahil nga nagkakaroon na ng fiasco. I don't know, Mr. Chair, I leave it to you kung paano natin 'to i-resolve.

Sen. Tolentino: Medyo confusing 'yung sagot mo kanina, nagpunta ka sa basic necessity, pumasok du'n sa Anti-Hoarding, ang sabi mo ngayon, 'yung Circular ng secretary of DTI ay tungkol sa PPE, tungkol du'n sa mga supplies, hindi kasama do'n 'yung sugar, 'di ba? Hindi basic necessity ang sugar?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Hindi po kasama, Mr. Chair, 'yung sugar at that time, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Tolentino: Okay. Medyo conflicting na 'yung sinabi mo. You're raising your hand, Usec. Sebastian?

Usec. Sebastian: Yes, Your Honor. This is what I know about sugar, Mr. Chairman, Your Honor, before, I think by the end of July, I just don't know the exact date, there was a consultation--

Sen. Tolentino: July 2022, 2021?

Usec. Sebastian: Because of the rising price already of sugar, there was a consultation done by the Department of Agriculture on the possibility of setting a SRP for sugar-

Sen. Tolentino: Suggested retail price.

Usec. Sebastian: Yes, Your Honor. But I think I lost track what happened to the recommendation but it was not pushed through, the setting up of the SRP, because the price was very volatile, Your Honor. So, indeed, Your Honor, the Department of Agriculture has some role when it comes to the setting of SRP for sugar, in coordination with the Department of Trade & Industry, Your Honor. And during the peak also of the problem on pork, remember, Your Honor, in 2021, we also have a problem on pork and other commodities, the DTI and other agencies formed the interagency task force on economic intelligence [STG-EI]. This was supposed to help in monitoring the supply of specific commodities, specific cultural commodities, Your Honor. And they were also on to Anti-Smuggling. So there are joint activities between DTI and the Department of Agriculture. But the hoarding, Your Honor--

Sen. Tolentino: ***inaudible*** Again, the question of Sen. Dela Rosa is this, who is incharge? If there is an inter-agency coordinative ad hoc body, who is in charge? Is it DTI, is it DA? If it relates to medicine, is it FDA? So sinong in charge? Itong pinag-uusapan natin ngayon, sa asukal. So sinong in charge du'n sa monitoring ng presyo ng asukal? Medyo napalayo na tayo eh. Kung saan saan na tayo nakarating. So sino 'yung in charge sa monitoring ng presyo ng asukal. 'Yun lang ang tanong. I-simplify na natin.

Usec. Sebastian: That would be, from my knowledge, Your Honor, that would be the Department of Agriculture, SRA and DTI, Your Honor. Sen. Tolentino: O, so 'pag inter... Ulitin ko uli. 'Pag inter-agency, sino 'yung pinaka-head nu'ng coordinative body na 'yon, 'yung tatlo? SRA is part of DA, so you have now DTI and DA. O isa na lang, sinong in charge do'n? Sinong nagpe-preside sa meeting no'n? Hindi naman pwedeng sabay-sabay 'yon nagpe-preside. DA or DTI? Jack en Poy na lang?

Sen. Dela Rosa: Alam mo, Your Honor, siguro kaya namamayagpag itong mga negosyante na unscrupulous businessmen dahil malabo itong ating law enforcement agencies kung sino talagang in charge dito, sinong magpa-file ng kaso nito. Kaya siguro wala pang na-file na kaso hanggang ngayon. Katagal na itong batas na ito. Ewan ko lang kung may na-file-an nang kaso. Mamaya maghingi tayo ng data from DTI kung ilan ang na-file-an ng kaso, ilan ang nakobikto dahil kung wala, edi might as well, ibasura itong batas na ito kung hindi niyo kayang i-implement.

Sen. Tolentino: DTI, before I give, Sen. Bato Dela Rosa, your... One more question? Quick reply? Paikot-ikot kayong dalawa eh.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Mr. Chair... Thank you, Mr. Chair. The subtask group on economic intelligence, Mr. Chair, was created by the Department of Agriculture.

Sen. Tolentino: It's the creation of the Department of Agriculture with the DTI as a mere supportive entity, gano'n ba?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair. The other agencies of the STG-EI are the National Security Council, National Intelligence Coordinating Agency--

Sen. Tolentino: What you're mentioning is a policy making body. What Sen. Dela Rosa is asking is about an operational body. Who is going to the different supermarkets, who is going to the different tiangge, palengke, et cetera, et cetera. Hindi 'yung sa board room.

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair. The [STG-EI] is an operating body. It is headed by the Department of Agriculture and all reports are drafted under the authority of the Department of Agriculture, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Tolentino: Department of Agriculture, raid, filing of cases, monitoring, et cetera, et cetera?

DTI Director Marcus Valdez: Yes, Mr. Chair. The Department of Trade Industry only assists the- Sen. Tolentino: Usec. Sebastian, kayo pala. Kayo raw sabi ni DTI.

Usec. Sebastian: The, as far as the [STG-EI], Your Honor, that is correct. It is a task group that was developed, that was formed, co-chaired between DTI and DA.

Sen. Tolentino: Co-chaired naman ngayon so pareho, joint?

Usec. Sebastian: I think if you read the document, Director, you will see there that we are co-chairs. But anyway, Your Honor, I think if we can call properly the executive, if we can call probably the proper official from the Department of Agriculture can shed light on this.

Sen. Tolentino: 'Di ba ikaw na nga 'yung Usec? Although you're suspended, you have a historical knowledge of what that task force is all about.

Usec. Sebastian: Yes, Your Honor. But there is an undersecretary, Your Honor, in the department who is actually involved in this--

Sen. Tolentino: Who is that undersecretary?

Usec. Sebastian: The undersecretary for consumer affairs, Your Honors.

Sen. Tolentino: So there is also an undersecretary for consumer affairs. So there is also an undersecretary of DTI for agricultural affairs?

Usec. Sebastian: No, Your Honor, I think the DTI is Usec. Castelo, and on the part of DA, it was Asec. Lasiste who was working with Usec. Castelo, Your Honor.

Sen. Tolentino: We're taking too much time here, crisscrossing, overlapping functions.

Sen. Dela Rosa: Mr. Chair, I just would like to manifest na klaruhin natin itong responsibilidad na 'to dahil ito talaga, this is the root cause of all price manipulation. Ito palang problema na ito, wala palang klaro kung sinong magfa-file ng kaso so ipatawag natin 'to kung sinong in-charge dito, at maybe...

Sen. Tolentino: So secretary, take note of that, the referred to Usecs coming from DTI and Agriculture for the next hearing. Any other questions, Sen. Dela Rosa? For the moment, you will suspend your questioning?

Sen. Dela Rosa: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4:17:48 - 4:19:00
Sen. Dela Rosa: Mr. Chairman, you know, with the recent developments, I am inclined to make a motion to have somebody cited in contempt for lying before this committee, but having said that, I am entertaining naman other thoughts, how are we going to treat somebody in contempt who is online and who is suffering from COVID 19, Mr. Chairman? So I am in quandary as to mag-motion ako o hindi because naawa rin ako dahil COVID positive 'yung tao, nando'n ngayon sa bahay niya. At the same time, I want to maintain the integrity of this committee na dapat, nobody should be lying before this committee, Mr. Chairman. So I am asking for some administrative advice from our chairman. How to deal with this? Thank you. Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Tolentino: Sen. Dela Rosa, if you're relying on Section 18 of Resolution 145, let me refresh your memory that the contempt of this committee shall be deemed a contempt of the Senate and such witness may be ordered by the committee to be detained in such place as it may designate under the *** of the Sergeant of Arms. So we leave that to the compassionate mode of the good senator if there is no motion that will be and perhaps in due time. But is Sen. Estrada propounding a question?

SP Zubiri: Your Honor, maybe to hasten the proceedings, because I think we've discussed this issue lengthly. Mr. Serafica has COVID-19, we have to give a bit of compassion to his condition. I would suggest to do justice to the farmers, to do justice to the stakeholders. Maybe we can terminate the hearings, come up with a quick resolution of the case, approve it before the break and if these cases are necessary to be filed, let us file them so that they have their day in court and I think that would be the best. With first *** approval of the minority floor leader who's a bar topnotcher who would agree that if they feel that there's malfeasance, misfeasance, any violations of the Graft and Corrupt Practices Act, let us come up already with the findings, Your Honor and proceed with the filing of the cases.