Transcript of Interview Senate President Juan Miguel "Migz" F. Zubiri in Kapihan sa Manila Bay with Marichu Villanueva

SP ZUBIRI: For example, gusto nila sabihin sa akin, bibilhin nila 'yong 40 percent share ng Chinese government sa NGCP, aba pipirma na ako sa batas. Pabor na ako diyan. Ibig sabihin, babalik po natin, we can re-nationalize some of our assets that we feel is very important. I'll give you an example. Kagagaling lang namin sa visit sa France, with the French Parliament and one of the important programs we did there was energy security. We visited EDF - the largest producer of energy in Europe. Nuclear, they own 58 nuclear power plants. And they told us, during the briefing with EDF, that there was a time that they privatized EDF, they opened it to privatization. Government ran, 'yan e. They sold 40 percent of their shares. Alam mo ginawa nila? Nakita po nila na nagkaroon din ng national security issues, nagkaroon din ng leakages of information, hindi nila ma-control 'yong 40 percent na iyon when it comes to security matters. So, they re-nationalized it. Binili uli nila 'yong EDF. Now, 90 percent of EDF is back to the French government hands and only 10 percent is with smaller shareholders.

That's the possible use of the Maharlika funds. Sa tingin ko, tama iyon. Para at least, may income po iyan dahil 'yong national grid - sinasabi ko lang, hindi naman bibilhin 'yong buong NGCP, bibilhin lang 'yong foreign shares. 'yong 60 percent na pagmamayari ng Pilipino, we can respect that. Pilipino naman yan e. 'yong 40 percent na lang, pwede natin bilhin iyon. Ang kagandahan pa noon mga kababayan, income generating yan because that is a monopoloy. That is the grid, the National Grid Corporation. Malaki ang kita ng grid because they have no competition. That is what you call a safe investment for the Maharlika fund.

Q: Will that need legislation? To buy back the NGCP?

SP ZUBIRI: I think friendly persuasion, siguro ng government?

Q: Are you aware if there was any taken up during the china visit of the president? Off the cuff idea niyo that NGCP can be bought back?

SP ZUBIRI: I dont know. I did not attend. Well, it's too early to tell, I cannot really talk about it kasi baka lumabas pa sa Business Beat yan. Ang akin lang, it was just a suggestion, an example. Of course, we discussed it lengthily with them. Maybe with the briefing with Secretary Diokno, he can give us more information.

Q: Baka ma-China embassy Part 2 tayo?

SP ZUBIRI: Baka ma-double speak, sabihin pa fake news. Kaya sa akin, that is an example. Hindi ko sinasabi na gagawin po ng gobyerno iyon. Akin lang ehemplo iyon. My idea. It is a proposal when we pass this law, that is one investment they can come into. I think it is a safe investment and it is the good thing to do because we can re-nationalize a very important part of our energy sector.

Q: Speaking of China, the Supreme Court yesterday rendered a ruling on the voided exploration of China, Malaysia and Vietnam. And coming at the heels of china visit of the President. As a treaty ratifying body, how will you now ensure that no such thing comes up again na unconstitutional, illegal, 'yong magiging exploratory talks?

SP ZUBIRI: Ito 'yong PR na nilabas ng Supreme Court: "Joint marine seismic undertaking by Philippines-China-Vietnam is unconstitutional." This was done during the Arroyo Administration and I quote: "The Supreme Court has declared void and unconstitutional the joint marine-seismic undertaking or JMSU, among the Philippines, China and Vietnam, voting 12-2-1 against the undertaking. The Supreme Court enbanc ruled that the JMSU was unconstitutional for allowing only foreign corporations to participate in the exploration of the country's national resources. The JMSU is an agreement among the Philippine National Oil Company, China National Offshore Oil Company and the Vietnam Oil and Gas Corporation regarding oil explorations in the West Philippine Sea covering 142,886 sq kms."

Okay. That has implications. May implications po iyan sa mga negotiations ng ating pangulo in his recent visit to China. There are questions there. One question: Are we now barred from doing joint explorations with other claimant countries such as China and Vietnam under this ruling? I've been trying since last night to get a substantive portion of the resolution of the Supreme Court decision, pero hindi pa nila nilalabas. PR pa lang. We have to study that very carefully and with that we have to tread cautiously in these exploration talks, for example with China. Kasi it might also be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. We have to see the merits of the case, the merits of the decision. Ang ibig po bang sabihin ng Supreme Court, for example, will we do exploration in Pagasa Island? Should that be wholly Filipino undertaking? With this decision parang ganoon po ang naintindihan ko. That anywhere in our Exclusive Economic Zone dapat Filipino lang? Yan po ang pananaw ko. Hindi po ako abugado pero in simple layman's language parang ganyan ang dating ng decision ng Supreme Court. Let us study that further but again, my suggestion to the administration, is tread cautiously when it comes to long term contracts with joint exploration with different claimant countries because the Supreme Court has spoken with its decision kahapon na unconstitutional nga itong joint exploration ng tatlong bansa - Pilpinas, Vietnam and China. So, we have to study this very carefully.

Thankfully and fortunately, 'yong Executive Secretary ng Pangulo ay dating Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Maalam po iyan, matalino po iyan. He can give good advice to the President and I would suggest, unsolicited advice, that he study carefully the decision and give good advice to the President.

Talking about oil exploration, we have many parts of the country we are an archipelago. Ako hindi naniniwala na walang langis doon sa Sulu Sea between Mindanao and Palawan. Napakaganda po ng lugar na yan. I can't believe... And its bordering Malaysia and Indonesia. Oil rich. Actually, nakapunta na ako ng Sabah, nakikita ko 'yong oil rigs nila in the last island of Sulu. Sabi ko: "Imposible namang walang langis doon," Mag setup tayo ng deep sea oil exploration off Sulu Sea, diba? We have other opportunities; I do not know why we are always concentrating on the West Philippine Sea-South China Sea area. We can continue to explore down south. I asked Secretary Lotilla about that at sabi niya it was started I think in the early 2000s pero hindi na natuloy because of security concerns. Magpadala tayo ng navy boats doon para samahan itong mga exploration vessels. Natatakot sila noon kasi marami pang Abu Sayyaf, pero under the Bangsamor Organic Law, medyo safe na po diyan and we can do it joint with the Bangsamoro Government.

Under the law, joint exploration is allowed and national government of course takes the lead but the Bangsamoro government will have a share on the profits on natural resources whether it is gas or oil. Naniniwala ako na napakarami doon, at safe pa, it is within our territory.

Ako, I would suggest that they focus also on other areas of the country. We can also look at Benham Rise which is east of Quezon. Walang claimant doon, atin 'yon. Malapit sa atin 'yon. Medyo mas malalim pero kaya.

Q: Let's go to gut issue: Inflation. The real culprit daw is inflation is smuggling. Agriculural smuggling. How can legislation cure smuggling? You have passed so many laws and even Sen Imee Marcos was saying she has filed a "salad bill" trying to regulate onion and everything?

SP ZUBIRI: Ako, it's not just smuggling, it is also strengthening our farmers in the country. Kaya frustration ni Pangulong Marcos yan na siya na mismo ang nakaupo bilang kalihim ng Agriculture sector dahil parang wala pa siyang nakikitang karapat-dapat diyan na hindi ma-i-involve sa smuggling, hindi mainvolve sa sobra-sobrang importation and the like. Pero inflation is basically the increase in prices of commodities whether it is food or fuel. Now, fuel wala po tayo magagawa, yugn fuel is a global crisis pwede po natin ma google 'yong amount or cost ng fuel sa Singapore were we buy all our fuel and you will see na hindi naman ganun kalayo ang binabayaran ng iba't ibang bansa [compared] dito sa ating bansa in terms of fuel cost. Pangalawa, food, ang pagkain kailangan talaga natin, unang una tulungan natin ang ating mga magsasaka from planting to harvesting and eventually to the distribution to the markets. Bakit? Ako bilang supporter ng sugar industry dahil ako po ay laking Negros at Bukidnon where the two largest producing areas of suger in the country, alam ko po na 'yong farm-gate price ay ibang iba sa presyo sa merkado kapag bumaba po kayo sa grocery dito sa Manila. 'yong farm-gate price for example ngayon ng sugar is about P55.00. P50.00 to P55.00 per kilo raw sugar. You add another P7.00 for refining that raw sugar into refined sugar P7.00 that is P62.00. You add trucking, handling and everything another P10.00 that is P72.00, sugar is being sold at P90.00 why is there P18.00 difference, sometimes P20.00 difference, hindi naman yan kasalanan ng mga magsasaka. Dito sa industriya na yan, for sugar industry for example, there is only less than 20 people that are the sugar traders in the country. You can count with your hands and your feet the number of people involved in sugar trading. Sila lang talaga ang yumayaman sa totoo lang multi-millionaires ang iba bilyonaryo. Ngayon unang una hindi naman sila nag tatanim ng tubo, binibili nila ng mura, binebenta nila ng mahal. Kaya minsan nagagalit ang gobyerno and they threaten importation, why? Because sugar abroad is still cheaper. Landed in the Philippine it is about P70.00 plus pesos, so if we import talagang babagsak ang presyo ng asukal at the detriment of our farmers. What we want to do is help farmers look for sweet spot, we want to help the farmers and help the people as well kase we cannot sell expensive products to the consumers that is inflationary. So ang gusto natin ang sabi naman ng mga magsasaka, ang mura naman ng benta namin, hindi naming alam bakit pag dating sa merkado napaka mahal na bakit nagkaganoon? So yan ang dapat natin gawin that is why ako'y naniniwala sa kadiwa markets ng Pangulo. Wherein you already connect the farmers the sugar cooperatives to sell to the kadiwa stores para direct na wala nang trader, direct price na po tayo, so yan ang kailangan natin gawin. But smuggling, the reason why there is smuggling is because they can buy cheap abroad and sell expensive in the Philippines. So to be able to control smuggling, you have to bring down the prices locally doing what I've said. Bridging the farm-gate price to the market price.

Q: And that means subsidy?

SP ZUBIRI: Well if its Kadiwa centers basically giving them market to sell their products. Kase 'yong logistics kase wala naman trucking 'yong let say 'yong association naming sa Bukidnon, wala naman silang capability na dadalahin 'yong sugar sa Manila, wala naman silang trucking, wala naman silang ganun so yes it mainly entails a system by the DA wherein they will provide the logistics to bring down the prices. For example, maybe the Mindanao sugar can be, probably, utilized by the Mindanao market diba kase Malaki naman ang market ng sugar sa Mindanao, Malaki ang population that's probably the second largest population on both areas of our country next to Visayas, first Luzon and sometimes may nagagalit nga bakit nag iimport si Pangulo. With due respect ako I'm a agriculturist by education and by profession and nakikita ko na wala din magawa ang gobyerno kapag masyado na mataas ang inflation. Right now sabi nila for December the inflation rate is about over eight percent its looking at that 8.4 percent. Sayang naman 'yong growth rate na may posibleng 7 percent growth rate na 'yong inflation mo ay mas mataas kaysa sa growth rate mo. Baligtad yan eh dapat mababa yugn inflation mo, if you have a 4 percent inflation rate and a seven percent growth rate that is a blockbuster, economic powerhouse that is why we have to bring it down. Kaya naintidihan ko din po ang Presidente kapag sinsabi niya kailangan natin mar import ng asukal, kailangan na po natin mag import ng pagkain dahil minsan napakamahal ng locally produced markets. So whenever the President announces na mag iimport siya for certain products like prok, chicken and sugar marami akong natatanggap na tawag galing sa mga farmers' federation, sabi ko tulungan din natin ang Pangulo, we have to find a way to bring the prices lower. For example, and onions ang sibuyas, it boggles the mind that it is P700. Is it because there is a lack of produce in the Philippine? Kase kung konti lang talaga ang production let say nagkaroon ng bagyo, natamaan ang onion producing areas sa Pilipinas maiintindihan ko, pero wala naman bagyo, it is business as usual for the farmers maganda po 'yong planting methods nila, 'yong harvest nila, bakit umabot ng P700 paang may price manipulation, there is really price manipulation. It's impossible that it would go up that high. Alam mo sa CNN lumabas na tayo international news, Philippine onions at $12.00 per kilo sa kanila magkano lang yugn onions. So mapipilitan talaga si Presidente na mag import ng onions to brign the price of onions down. To tell the farmers and traders na hwag ninyo naman abusuhin ang income kase kawawa naman ang mga kababayan natin. Now, before the farmers attack me I do not know the farm-gate price of onions. I need to know and I will ask the chairman of the Committee on agriculture ano ba ang findings nila, magkano ba ang farm-gate price ng onions dito sa Northern Luzon, sa Visayas at magkano ang market price, obviously market price P700 eh kung 'yong farm-gate price ay P200 per kilo, aba ang laki ng kita ng trader P500 per kilo, kaya we have to look into that and if the President needs to bring down inflation then, it pains me to say this bilang isang agriculturist, but we have to look at the greater good of the country, it's the greater good and we cannot allow runaway inflation. Ayaw natin mangyari katulad ng US at Europe na ang inflation rate nila double digit. We can't allow that and 38 percent of our inflationary increase is on food.

Q: Sen. Cynthia had a public hearing and she was told na this people sa DA and other sub agencies in the DA kase mat WTO tayo terrified lahat yan so they don't need to get any permit to import so they can just import. Then suddenly we crackdown against imported... nawala lahat ng onions ngayon mga local produce ang lumalabas at higher prices. Then I heard an interview sa radio a cooperative leader on onion somewhere in the north and he was saying nagkapandemic for the past two years nalugi kami ng husto so they are trying to recover the lost income and kanilang farm-gate price ng onion is P400. He was asking subsidy?

SP ZUBIRI: Alam ninyo po as farmers, and I am a farmer myself, we have to always look at the sweet price. 'yong price na acceptable sa farmers at price na acceptable sa ating mga consumers. Kapag sobra naman mahal, magagalit ang mga consumers at yan mapipilitan an gating gobyerno na mag papasok ng imported onions that is free-market economy and I always lean towards the farmers, I always defer to our farming sector when it comes to that, but we also cannot do predatory pricing dahil nga nalugi sila for two years kaya ngayon ay babawi nap o sila paano naman po ang buong bansa? Magiging laughingstock na tayo sa buong mundo, nasa CNN na po tayo at iba't ibang international media. So, ma-pwepwersa talaga ang Pangulo, his hands are tied because ang sibuyas po ay "trinity of Filipino cooking", bawang, sibuyas at kamatis. Lahat ng pagkain Filipino may bawang sibuyas at kamatis.

Q: In fairness kay Sen. Cynthia Villar nung nagkaroon noon ng inquiry sa pricing sa bawang, bumaba ang price ng bawang?

SP ZUBIRI: Kaya nga eh, diyan nga ako natatawa kase kapag may issue ang Pangulo o ang DA na mag-import kami, biglang bababa nang P100, what king od pricing is that? It is not market driven, it is predatory pricing. Kaya nga ang sabi ko sa DTI at sa DA maglabas kayo ng SRP, suggested retail price.

Q: Eh ang sabi ng DTI hindi namin trabaho yan DA yan.

SP ZUBIRI: Eh tignan mo kaya hindi nacoconfirm pa sa Pascual. Kailangan ni Pacual gumalaw. Sec. Pascual inflation is your department. Alam m o mahal kita pero kailangan mo mag double time because you know... umikot kaq sa mga merkado.

Q: Sabi ni Presidente kahapon "my hands are tied" dahil dun sa phytosanitary and these are non-trade barriers na iniimpose sa atin to protect our local producers. But are we over protecting our local producers? Sabi nila sa population 10 million farmers as against the 110 million Filipinos, how would you come up with a compromise to that?

SP ZUBIRI: That is exactly, that compromise if finding the right prices, wherein comfortable and ating taong bayan at comfortable po ang ating mga magsasaka. If they do predatory pricing talagang magkakaroon ng free importation kapag nagkaroon ng free importation magkaka leche- leche na kase talagang napakamura ng pagkain sa ibang bansa. So, yan ang kailangan natin bantayan and that is why that President as concurrent agriculture secretary he knows this and he is trying to strengthen talaga the farming sector, but we have to make sure there is no disparity and predatory pricing when it comes to the prices of commodities kase kung hindi kawawa ang taong bayan. We have to control inflation, that's it. The lowest point ng Duterte administration was nung tumaas masyado ang presyo ng bigas. Nung tumaas po ang presyo ng bigas dyan lang po natamaan si president Duterte in terms of ratings bumaba ng doubnle digit ang kanyang approval rating and then he decided to declare of course rice tariffication which allowed no people from other countries like Vietnam, Thailand to import rice to the Philippines at a lower cost which controlled the inflation rate in terms of cost of rice. So ganun din mapipilitan talaga si Pangulong Marcos kung hindi po natin mapagusapan ng maayos sa ating mga producers ang magandang presyo na hindi matatamaan ang mga consumer at hindi din malulugi ang ating mga magsasaka. Pero definitely kung gagawin po natin ginto ang presyo ng sibuyas ay talagang walang magagawa ang gobyerno, talagang magpapaimport po sila. That is why we're appealing to the farmers and the traders let us come up with a sweet spot or a right pricing the buhay ang mag sasaka at masaya po ang ating mga consumers. Ang mga kababayan natin na namimili sa merkado.

(Part 2 of 3)