SENATE MEDIA INTERVIEW WITH SEN. WIN GATCHALIAN

Q: Assessment

SEN. WIN: Ang assessment ko in short, nabudol ang PAGCOR dahil kumuha sila ng third party auditor na ang ibinigay ay bank certification ng isang bangko na hindi naman registered sa BIR. Yung technical capability walang ipinakita at lumalabas na parang yung mga taxes, both local and national taxes, di nagbabayad. So mahalaga itong third party auditor dahil dito kinukuha yung datos kung magkano ang binabayad ng POGO sa atin, so mahalaga ang papel dahil kung mali yung tawag natin gross gaming revenue, yung datos na yun, mali makokolekta ng BIR, mali yung makokolekta ng PAGCOR. Since nakita natin na yung third party auditor, walang office hindi nagbabayad ng taxes hindi pa nga pumunta ngayon, nakikita natin may credibility issues itong third party auditor. At aminado yung PAGCOR na marami dito hindi nila na-check at kasalanan din nila kasi bakit nila inaprubahan ito? Lumabag sila sa sarili nilang terms or reference eh. So nakakadismaya dahil gusto natin ang gobyerno naghahanap ng kita pero nag-aaprub tayo ng third party auditor na mali naman ang ibinibigay pagdating sa kita. So nakakadismaya.

Q: Sir yung interest nito pag trinanslate doon sa projected revenue, sobra nang lugi tayo?

SEN. WIN: Malaking tsansa ang POGO nag-uunder declare, di tama yung dinedeclare sa atin, yung gross revenue ng third party auditor hindi accurate, so baka mas malaki pa ang kinikita ng POGO kaysa sa binabayad sa atin.

Q: Do you suspect that this thirdparty auditor is in cahoots with POGO?

SEN. WIN: They can be in cahoots with POGO or they can be in cahoots with PAGCOR themselves dahil ang PAGCOR dapat pinag-aralan nilang mabuti at sinundan yung sarili nilang terms of reference para makakuha ng tamang third party auditor dahil we have to remember the contract is long, 10 years. At ang ibinabayad natin 6 billion for 10 years, that's about P500 million a year ang makukuha nung third party auditor. So maraming questions no, how this third party auditor came to be?

Q: Do you have suspicions about who is behind this?

SEN. WIN: I have but I'll reserve that, ang focus natin ang revenues on how the bidding was conducted. We will have another session on that or we will trigger an investigation on the blue ribbon committee. I think yung bidding proper meaning yung process ng bidding we might trigger that through a Blue Ribbon investigation.

Q: PAGCOR committed to rescind the contracts?

SEN. WIN: That's what they mentioned earlier because all of these things that are happening, they are inclined to rescind the contract.

Q: Marami sa mga opisyal ng PAGCOR ang bago?

SEN. WIN: Hindi dahilan yung mga bago eh dahil marami dyan matagal na sila, at tinanong ni Sen. Bato kanina yung si Mr. Robert, matagal na sya doon. POGOs has been operating in our country prior to 2017, saka itong third party auditor, 2017 in-approve to, under the new law hindi na sila nag-approve ng bagong third party auditor. So matagal nang nag-ooperte itong Globalcom RCI.

Q: Pwedeng rescind, pwedeng balewalain ang contract?

SEN. WIN: Pwede because of all these violations, that's a possibility.

Q: Anong liability ng former PAGCOR officials?

SEN. WIN: That will be a subject of investigations sa blue ribbon, kasi titignan natin yung bidding itself. Hindi namin titignan yung bidding itself because it's a Blue Ribbon matter. We looked at the credibility of the third party auditor because it generates the gross gaming revenue. Yung gross gaming revenue basis kasi niyan ng 5% sa BIR and 2% sa PAGCOR. So kung mali yung gross gaming revenue, kung undervalued siya, mali na yung binabayarang buwis sa atin. So important yan dahil nasa batas yan, very clear yung nasa batas na dapat may reputable third party auditor.

Q: Nagkaroon ng unconscious mistake?

SEN. WIN: Hindi ako naniniwalang unconscious mistake yun o unwitting mistake, ang laki-laki ng Pagcor, marami silang abogado, maraming technical people so di ako naniniwala na its an unconscious mistake o di nila nakita yan. I think we need to go deeper into the bidding proper itself no, and that will be triggered through a Blue Ribbon investigation.

Q: Why Blue Ribbon?

SEN. WIN: Malfeasance and misfeasance will be under blue ribbon so but i have to talk to Sen. Tolentino about that no, I have to get his sense and also yung kanyang idea.

Q: Do you find it necessary?

SEN. WIN: I think it's necessary, importante yan kasi paano napili itong ganitong klaseng entity, after five years ganito lang ang lumalabas and we gave PAGCOR a chance to answer, nakita nyo na marami doon tahimik lang.

Q: Yung accountability will be determined by the Blue Ribbon kahit sinasabi natin na nagpabudol sila?

SEN. WIN: I will discuss that with Sen. Tolentino kumbaga sa legal parlance, kung merong probable cause, kung may basis for an investigation, but from where I stand and from the information na nakita ko it has to be investigated by the Blue Ribbon committee.

Q: Why do you need to invite the other officials considering na solid na ang investigation?

SEN. WIN: In the spirit of fairness, para marinig natin sila, again we invited Globalcom RCI, we requested their physical presence, kung hindi man pwede yung kanilang presidente, sana nagpadala sila abogado or accountant or representative para lang meron silang masabi. And at the same time we found also na as early as December 2022, ang PAGCOR nagpadala na ng letter sa kanila requesting for tax information eh, 2023 na ngayon hindi pa sila nagpi-present. Meron talagang willful avoidance on the part of the third party auditor.

Q: Sir for 10 years, P6 billion ang total? P500 million every year yun ang cost?

SEN. WIN: Ang nabayaran lang ng gobyerno on the average is about P150 a year, pero utang yan ng gobyerno, so even though hindi nagbabayad ng cash collectible yan ng third party auditor, utang natin yan no as government, as taxpayers. So yung 500 million in my opinion is not worth the penny because hindi sila technically capable at wala silang maipakitang technical capabilities.

Q: Should the third party auditor return the amount they took since 2017?

SEN. WIN: I think that will be, ako nakikita ko, let me backtrack a bit, ang COA naglabas rin ng findings na maraming inaccuracy dun sa third party auditor. And that's why COA also has to come in to conduct a special review. Both on the bidding proper and also the activities of the third party auditor. Because naglabas sila, in their findings na maraming inaccuracy pagdating sa gross gaming revenue.

Q: Probably one last hearing, ano ang direction?

SEN. WIN: We will review the data first na isasubmit sa amin, but ang target namin within the week is to complete the committee report. Meron na kaming committee report on POGOs. So we'll be submitting it to the body after we get the signatures. So we will evaluate the discussion ngayon, tignan rin namin yung mga submission, pag kailangan pa mag-isang hearing, kung hindi na, committee report na.

Q: PAGCOR being regulator and operator?

SEN. WIN: It's very clear na may conflict of interest sa PAGCOR. Sa kabilang banda ang PAGCOR gusto niya kita, sa kabilang banda regulation. Yung privilege speech ni Sen. Poe was Dec. 12. Ngayon Jan. 23 na walang pa ring aksyon kundi P500,000 fine. So sino naman ang matatakot na POGO pag ganyan lang yung aksyon ng PAGCOR and they also admitted na mabagal sila. So it's clear here that regulation and operation cannot be in the same entity kapag may conflict, ang nagsa-sacrifice dyan yung the rest of the Filipino people no because they don't act as fast as we want.

Q: Meron na kayong committee report, ano recommendations nyo?

SEN.WIN: I'll reserve that kapag napaikot na namin. So we'll just compile some of the information ngayon, within the week we'll have something within the week.

Q:Safe to say leaning toward banning POGOs?

SEN.WIN: We'll reserve that, within the week.

Q: Have you already reconciled the numbers?

SEN.WIN: In a nutshell without disclosing so much, kasi ang committee report will spell that out. In a nutshell, kapag umalis ang POGO sa atin, hindi babagsak ang ekonomiya natin, matibay na matibay pa rin. Magkakaroon lang ng konting aasikasuhin sa 16,000 na Filipinos working in POGOs but I believe kaya natin sila bigyan ng trabaho. Ang ekonomiya natin hindi babagsak dahil mawawala ang POGO.

Q: Including real estate?

SEN.WIN: Yes, including real estate, in fact better ito sa real estate dahil nung andito ang POGO, it created a bubble. Tumaas ang presyo ng renta sa bahay, tumaas ang renta ng presyo sa condominiums, pati office. So bumaba nung pandemic to the right level. So naging artificial bubble siya. So I' m not gonna worry about real estate.

Q: Parang saving grace natin most likely ang re-energizing BPO?

SEN. WIN: On the other side, yung maliliit na negosyante, marami ako nakausap na maliliit na negosyante na nawalan ng office space because tumaas ang offers. So makakabalik na sila especially in areas like Makati, Ortigas itong Manila Bay area. So meron ding magandang dulot ang pagaalis ng POGO because local businesses now come in at the right price level.

Q: May consultation na ba with Sen. Dela Rosa?

SEN.WIN: Meron, nag-uusap kami ni Sen. Bato, so we are synchronizing our findings.

Q: Hindi contradicting?

SEN. WIN: Hindi.

Q: Naniniwala kayo na pwedeng magkaroon ng imbestigasyon ang Senate Blue Ribbon, wala kayo intensyon na magfile ng resolution na lang?

SEN. WIN: That will be part of the committee report, yung resolution. So may mga accompanying resolutions ang committee report.

Q: Meron nang version dito ang Maharlika bill, meron na kayong initial consideration?

SEN. WIN: Hindi ko pa nababasa yung senate version or yung re-engineered version. But ang aking titignan dyan yung source of fund. At kasi kung ang pinag-uusapan natin 1billion dollars that's not so much in terms of the scale ng sovereign wealth fund compared to other countries. Titignan natin ang source, titignan din natin ang return. Dahil ang essence ng sovereign wealth fund, mas mataas ang return nya dahil malaki nga siya. So titignan natin ang ganitong anggulo.

Q: Kung magiging source ang revenue ng GOCC io-oppose nyo?

SEN.WIN: Yung dividends kasi from GOCC pumupunta sa GAA, nagagamit natin yan for schools, for roads so kung tinanggal natin yan mawawala sa GAA. So we have to look at also kung anong mga projects ang pwedeng matamaan kapag nawala ang dividends from GOC.

Q: Acceptable ba kung IPO ang magiging source?

SEN.WIN: Pwede rin yun. May mga model na kapag nag IPO ka, you raise additional funds. So meron kang pondo sa gobyerno daragdagan mo ng pondo sa private para mas malaki. Pwede naman ang model na yun, ang kagandahan nyan, may private sector ka who will act as check and balance sa government. Kasi kung government lang, walang magche-check sa kanya kundi COA lang, actually COA lang. But with private sector, they can act as check and balance for each other. May mga ganung model akong nakita na effective din naman. But ang bottomline dyan yung amount, magkano ba ang malilikom natin? Maraming models, maraming effective models but at the end of the day, how much can we put to the fund.

Q: Yung pagrewrite sa House, admission na marami silang nakitang mali?

SEN. WIN: Well, work in progress naman ito. Alam nyo ang legislative is a work in progress. As you go along tingin ko marami silang naiisip, at least yung House, they want to add or subtract or reengineer. So that's part of the legislative process talaga. Q: On another glitch in the airport?

SEN.WIN: I think two times in a span of three weeks happening in two new years, incompetence na yun. Lightning cannot hit twice. So kung nangyari yan two times sa dalawang new year, incompetence na yan. And DOTr should look into revamping CAAP and the leadership of CAAP should look into resigning and give it to somebody else. It's unacceptable that it can happen twice in two new years. Nakakahiya na yan on their part. And parehong reason pa rin. UPS pa rin ang dahilan. So I think CAAP management should already do what is right which is to resign and give it to someone competent.

Q: Hindi ba nakakaduda na parehong year?

SEN. WIN: That's why nga isa sa nakikita nating anggulo baka sabotahe ito, whether it's cyber attack or physical sabotage baka pwedeng mangyari.We can't rule that out na eh. Nangyari twice wala pang isang buwan, so nakakatakot baka mangyari uli. So anong assurance natin na hindi mangyayari uli.

Q: Hindi kaya covering up lang, may serious talaga na nangyayari?

SEN. WIN: It can be. We don't know, baka merong disgruntled group inside or may mga national security issue. So again nung nangyari yan una they should make sure at all cost that it will not happen again. But nangyari uli eh. At nangyari pa ito sa mga kasamahan natin, si Sen. Tolentino was stuck for four hours in the plane. Sen. Revilla was also, naabala rin siya. Marami pang naabala. Dapat hindi nangyari ito. Dahil ang airport operations especially communication, 24/7 yan. You have to anticipate anything that can happen in the operations.

Q: Sir dapat sibakin o kusa na mag resign?

SEN. WIN: Out of delicadeza, I think they should resign.

Q: They said it is because of maintenance?

SEN. WIN: Alam mo ang operation nila 24/7. You have already taken into account maintenance. Meaning there are processes that you can do na nagme-maintain ka habang tumatakbo pa ang operations. Hindi pwedeng maintain shutdown na lahat. Parang kuryente yan. Ang kuryente maraming backup. Kahit nagme-maintain sila tumatakbo pa rin ang kuryente. So it's not a reason na nagme-maintain tayo that's why we need to close. It's gonna disrupt operations, electricity, water, many things.

Q: They should be held accountable?

SEN. WIN: Ongoing naman ang investigation dito so we will look into that angle also.

Q: Magkakaroon uli ng patawag sa kanila?

SEN. WIN: Yah. Maipatatawag sila I'm sure lalabas uli ito sa next hearing natin.