TRANSCRIPT OF INTERPELLATION OF SENATOR RISA HONTIVEROS DURING THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HEARINGS
August 16, 2023

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): Without going into specifics, which could be discussed in Executive Session, may factual basis po ba sa mga ulat na baka may saboteur or informants na nagooperate sa loob ng Pilipinas na sumusuporta doon sa illegitimate policy ng Chinese government sa West Philippine Sea?

I heard this also from a statement from the PCG Spokesperson, Commodore Tariela, na yung Chinese government parang, mukhang may advance knowledge sa ating resupply missions sa Ayungin at baka daw may Chinese informants sa Pilipinas. Is there anything that [anyone] could tell in open hearing?

DND Usec. Espino: That is a possibility. Of course, we are always thinking that during the loading of supplies, there are already informants in the areas where we load our supply before the operations is conducted. So nakakakuha na sila ng mga inputs doon at information.

SRH: Salamat, Usec. Paano nga ba na ang mga Tsino na-iintercept yung ating mga resupply missions? Halimbawa, sa dami ng mga ships nila, dun sa palibot ng Ayungin, could that situation in fact be described already as a blockade?

DND Usec. Espino: Yes, Madam Chair. At any one time there are daily presence of about 80 to 200 militia ships and China Coast Guards present in the area. So even if we escort our vessels, our private vessels supplying the necessary requirements of Ayungin, hindi po tayo, we could hardly counter the number of vessels from China. We normally escort one coast guard and one navy ship everytime they conduct the resupply. The Chinese ship and plenty of Coast Guard plus the militia ships presence in the area.

SRH: Salamat. In fact, naalala ko po sa confirmation hearing ng isang opisyal natin sa Armed Forces of the Philippines, at the time, the gentleman described the swarming as akin to a phalanx. At sa amin pong mga sibilyan, alam namin ang phalanx military tactic or formation yan. To hear of 80 to 200 hostile Chinese vessels conducting such operations around Ayungin, talagang it's a cause for grave concern.

SRH: Followup lang doon sa tanong ni Sen. Robin. Kaya po ninyo binuo yung AFP Modernization Program diba, yung tatlong horizons na sinabi ni Chair, para may framework din po kami sa pagbuo ng mga supportive policies and yung isa pong lagi naming naririnig sa inyo yung isang layunin niyo maka-abot tayo sa strategic defense posture na konektado din sa pinaguusapan, anong klaseng aid ang hihiingin? Yung domestic production, mga kakailanganin natin for national defense but at least yun po yung pinaka-pwede naming tignan na gabay.

DFA Asec. Gonzaga: As we think together how you can be supportive of the defense modernization plans, I should probably mention that we could track that with the ongoing discussions we have with the United States on what we're trying to do, a security assistance road map for the AFP. That one we're matching the needs of the AFP with the capabilities they can provide. I think we will all just bear that in mind as we work together.

SRH: Baka maganda hindi lang sa US magamit itong roadmap pero lahat ng mga whether treaty allies basta mga allies natin sa sabihin nating rule of law sa karagatan.

DFA Asec. Gonzaga: That has been recommended po and we're definitely going to pursue that.

SRH: Tungkol sa SEATO.. May strategic advantages po ba sa pagpasok sa ganyang klaseng multilateral security arrangements kumpara sa bilateral lang na arrangements sa ating mga allies at partners?

DFA USec Siriban: Yes, there are bilateral arrangements of course we have a number of them but I think multilateral engagements can be force multipliers. If we are able to as what Sec. Manalo reiterated many times, we are always open to working with as many partners as possible, not just with traditional partners, but with non-traditional partners as well. And we have been starting to do that in recent years.

SRH: Isang maganda pa sa force multipliers, hindi lang na namumultiply nila yung force natin, pero these kinds of multilateral formations enable us to build unities among the different partners and allies kahit dun sa iba o sa bawat isa sa kanila, we may also have issues with them. Pero kapag ka magkasundo on common principles, halimbawa on rule of law in the sea based on UNCLOs, at least binding yon at pwedeng mabalanse yung conflicts that naturally come up from time to time, kung sa mga indibidwal nga na tao, eh kahit sa mga bansa.

Just a last question about SEATO. Ano po ang mga parameters or posibleng parameters ng ganyang klaseng multilateral, regional security arrangement? May mga broad strokes ba sa imahinasyon ng DFA?

DFA USec Siriban: If you would allow us to take a look at it in more detail, when SEATO was originally conceptualized, it was against the communist threat in the 70s. The situation pa ito. And of course, we have to.. titignan po natin what kind of elements can go into these multilateral arrangements.

SRH: Naalala ko yung previous closed door briefing niyo sa amin and then yung hearing, tinanong po ng chair, wala bang papel ang Kongreso or at least ang Senado doon sa pag-alam sa apat na bagong sites? Even now na palapit hopefully yung exchange of notes, ganon parin ba ang status? Walang papel ang Senado sa usaping ito?

DFA Asec Gonzaga: Essentially, obviously, there is no formal role for the Senate because this is an implementation of an international agreement already that has been ruled as not needing Senate concurrence in the context of EDCA. But obviously the engagement that we do and the cooperation that we can promise the committee, in terms of briefing you and providing you updates, that goes without saying po.

SRH: Siyempre na-appreciate ko yung patuloy na commitment sa mga briefings, sa mga updates. Siguro naiintindihan niyo rin po why this is a longstanding issue dahil sineseryoso din ng Senado na kami ang treaty-making body so anumang mga bagay ng international relations, siyempre medyo inaassert namin yung papel. But I can leave it at that for now at least na-register ko na continuing concern ng kumite.

SRH: Doon sa Ayungin incident, naalala ko sabi ng Coast Guard yung pagdadala lang ng tubig sa barko ay para lang sa fire fighting kaya talagang maling-mali yung ginawa ng Tsina sa atin

DFA Asec. Gonzaga: Lawyers from both sides have a lot to say about these things, about water cannons, about these kinds of activities ... We have to look at the guidelines as a living document so discussions are ongoing, Asec Lorenzo and I continue to discuss with our US counterparts and we're hoping to get better clarification.

SRH: May mga observers at analysts na nilarawan yung MDT bilang "unequal arrangement" lalo na considering, gaya ng sinabi ng Chair, yung US inupdate na niya yung security arrangements sa ibang partners sa region, halimbawa Japan, several times na within the same time frame in the last 70 years. Understandably, pwedeng sabihin na cinonsider tayong second class ally for some time.

Sa konteksto ng kasaysayan natin na we were a former colony of the US, may kasabihan pa nga noon, diba ang tingin sa atin ay little brown brothers. Kaya ngayon, kapag pinaguusapan yung pag-review, pag-update ng MDT, ang iniisip ko po, ngayon ally natin ang US para makaeffectively push back tayo sa Tsina pero that alliance has to be defined as an alliance between equals.

I wanted to ask how we can ensure itong arrangement, reviewed, updated, or anong itatawag natin na MDT, hindi unequal? Na resrespetuhin ng US ang soberanya natin, at hindi tayo matretreat na junior partners.

Anong ginagawa natin para i-modernize at i-update ang mga security arrangements sa US at ibang partners sa region para sapat na i-confront yung hamon ng aggressive posture at saka gray zone tactics ng Chinese government sa West Philippine Sea?

DND Usec. Espino: Let me just expound on our general strategy on how we would address the situation in the West PH Sea. We are looking at three lines of efforts because the problem in the WPS is multifaceted. It cannot just be looked at with one prism. Our approach is first to strengthen our economy. Currently, our economy is very vulnerable to sanctions by our probable partners and our ability to make a tougher position or response would be dependent on how resilient our economy is to sanctions so that one.

Another is to leverage our alliances not only with the Americans but all other security partners in the region. All those that believe in the principle of rules-based international order and the next is to modernize our armed forces. These three our interrelated. Once we achieve a certain level of resilience and the support that we get from our alliance, from our partners, not only on military aspect but we are trying to put economic dimension on those alliances, even the MDT, and we develop our credible defense posture, then we can make a tougher position in the WPS to address the situation.

All of these is underpinned by strategic communication led by the DFA and other relevant agencies. In a nutshell, that's the way we respond to the challenges in the WPS.

SRH: Salamat, Usec. Given itong tatlong lines of efforts, ano yung mga probisyon sa MDT na kailangan iclarify o i-modernize kung mayroon man?

DND Usec. Madriaga: The continuous review of the MDT makes it a living document as Asec. JV has said, all of those no longer relevant provisions, like the expansion of the definition of a metropolitan territory, the inclusion of nonconventional threats and putting an economic dimension on the MDT not only on purely military I think is one way of modernizing the alliance. Since we understand that in 1951 we were only confronting a bipolar world in the cold war, but now the security sitaution is different so we have to address some of the provisions, include other dimensions and allow us treaty partners and as individual countries to address the emerging situation in our security environment.

SRH: Dahil binanggit ninyo Vice Admiral Punzalan yung maritime domain awareness, ang DFA also has been conducting information and education campaign tungkol sa Arbitral Award. Baka maganda yung mga ahensya natin, departments and agencies na may similar efforts, kumabaga parang force multiplier din as we were talking about SEATO earlier para matutunan ng bawat Pilipino lalo na ng mga bata natin how we are an archipelagic and maritime nation with even more water than land territory in our national territory.

Di ko matapos pag-isipan yung ongoing study on acts of aggression.

Like itong water-cannoning na ginawa sa Coast Guard natin, baka nga the Chinese Coast Guard was keeping it within the domain of gray zone tactics para hindi siya umabot sa threshold ng act of aggression, defined as armed attack, precisely para hindi matrigger yung MDT. And I don't know if the new security guidelines shed some light on, dahil it's short of an act of war, at I think marami tayo ayaw matrigger ang MDT, it remains a deterrent na paano tayo parin effectively maka-responde sa ganyang offensive actions.

Lastly, kasi nabanggit narin kanina ang cyberattacks, just a few questions. Ano po yung risks involved sa isang kumpanya, and here I'm talking about Udenna Corporation affiliated with China telecom, na pinapayagang mag-install ng telecommunications equipment malapit o sa loob mismo ng ating Philippine military bases, at pano pwedeng mamitigate yung mga risks na iyon?

I actually filed a resolution on this last Congress pa. It was referred to the then committee of defense kaya lang hindi narinig kaya gusto ko lang itanong ulit for any comments from our resource persons.

AFP BGeneral Cordova: Currently I dont have answers to that question maam but we will coordinate with our other staff. We will submit it to the committee.

SRH: Parang merong disinformation network na nagkokondukta ng kampanya sa loob ng bansa natin na sumusuporta sa polisiya ng Chinese government sa West Philippine Sea? Meron din po bang mga Pilipinong kasangkot dito kaya? Alam ba ng ating mga security agencies ito? And if so anong gagawin natin laban sa ganitong klaseng foreign interference sa ating internal affairs?

Maybe to help, if it can, natanong ko kay then National Security adviser Esperon? Meron ba tayong cyberdefense strategy and therefore meron ba tayong cyberdefense program and at that time wala pa or nasa super infant stages pa?

NICA Director Totanes: We will check our records on this. But on cybersecurity, I don't know if we have representatives from DICT who are in a better position to answer the query.

SRH: I-make of record ko lang po na mula nung nakaraang Kongreso hanggang ngayon, ang posisuon ko po ay tanggalin natin ang any Chinese government State-owned enterprise na nasa telecomms lalo na nasa loob ng ating sariling mga military camps and facilities.

SRH: Lastly, kung yung mga foreign state initiated cyberattacks are to be considered armed attacks... anong countermeasures ang dapat maprovide for sa ilalim ng isang updated at modernized MDT at sa ating ibang security arrangements?

Asec. Gonzaga: Yung binabanggit po ninyo na hybrid or irregular warfare. That's already in the radar screen of the Philippine-US defense alliance and as a matter of fact that's already explicity recognized in the defense guidelines as well so in response to your last question, we're in the early stages of really trying to understand the nature and scope and breadth of threat of irregular and hybrid warfare.

There are things and aspects in the defense guidelines that already speak about working on cooperation, interoperability, building into our exercises this issue of hybrid and irregular warfare so obviously moving forward we will not only be focusing just on the kinetic exercises but we will be focusing also on table top exercises, roundtable discussions anticipating all of these threats that are new to us in the current security environment that we have.

SRH: Although baka hindi ganoon ka-new. We've been talking about it for a few years. Of course it goes without saying way ahead ang US sa atin dito sila mismo diba tinanggal yata nila ang Huawei sa kanila and Eu countries have put up similar safeguards in the current environment, so there's a lot we can learn from. And sana maihabol talaga yung cyberdefense strategy and programs kasi sa panahon ngayon mahirap naman magpatuloy kung wala parin o hilaw parin.