Excerpts of Q&A of Senator Risa Hontiveros during the DILG budget hearing

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): Yung unang tanong ko po, idudugtong ko yung tinanong ko kanina sa DENR budget hearing dito naman posa DILG, yung tungkol po doon sa SBSI cult sa Socorro.

Noong September 29, 2023, DENR issued a Letter of Suspension for the Protected Area Community-Based Resource Management Agreement in favor of Socorro Bayanihan Services Incorporated o SBIS, based on gross violations of its terms and conditions.

This means that the privilege of SBSI to remain on the land has been revoked, or at least for now suspended.

Marami sa mga okupante ay biktima ng panlilinlang at pagsasamantala. Gusto kong tiyakin na mayroon silang tirahan, kabuhayan, at komunidad na uuwian pagkatapos nito.

Narinig ko na rin po kay Sec. Yulo-Loyzaga na nakikipag-ugnayan na po kayo, Sec. Abalos, Sec. Remulal pati si Sec. Gatchalian para sa isang integrated approach at bukas po yata mayroon po kayong pulong tungkol dito.

So ang tanong ko po ay paano po ang DILG makaka-assist sa smooth at saka mapayapang enforcement ng suspension notice, pati po yung reintegration at posibleng resettlement ng mga occupants? Ano pong suporta ang maibibigay ng DILG doon po sa LGU ng Socorro?

Sec. Benhur Abalos: Magandang hapon po, Mr. Chairperson. Kami po ay nag-uusap ni Secretary Loyzaga at mayroon nga kaming pagpupulong bukas para lahat-lahat po ng mga issues na dapat mabigyan tugon ay bibigyan po namin agad ng tugon. So kasama po rito ang Secretary of Justice, si Boying Remulla, Secretary of DENR at kami po.

Nakikita ko po rito, siguro kailangan siguro ang DSWD rito. At maski nga sa paglilipat sa bahay ay siguro lawakan pa ito. Pero sa ngalan po ng aming ahensya, ang unang-una pong maibibigay namin ay peace and order dahil yun nga ang sinabi sa akin ni Secretary, kinakabahan siyang pumasok roon. At ako'y nagpapasalamat kay Chief PNP at of course sa RD po at kapulisan doon.

Naglagay na po sila sa entrance, naglagay na sila ng mgap ulis doon at hindi lamang yun, sa gitna mismo ng lugar ay parang isang mini-police station na itinayo nila. Ito yung ni-report ni RD Kirby Kraft. Nang sa ganoon makita ng mga tao ang presensya ng pulisya. Ito ay simbolo ng peace and order sa lugar. At sa ibang mga bagay-bagay na pwede pa kaming tumulong, ito ay pag-uusapan namin bukas po. Pero of course, nangunguna na ang peace and order po rito at iba pang programa na pwedeng ibigay po namin ay gagawin namin tomorrow.

SRH: Maraming salamat po, Sec at good luck po sa pagpupulong ninyo. I'm sure aabangan din po ni Mayor Riza Timcang ng Socorro na una na po, kasama ng municipal DSWD ay kumupkop doon walong bata na una pong tumakas. At nagbuo po sila ng task force para tugunan nga ang problemang dulot nung kultong iyon.

Sec. Abalos: Mr. Chairperson, kasi tomorrow I will be in Basilan and Zamboanga City for our disbarment of private army groups team. So ako'y nag-atas ng isang Usec. at of course someone from the PNP to go there. Pero asahan niyo po ang buong tulong at suporta ng DILG po sa isyu pong ito.

SRH: Maraming salamat po para doon, Sec. And speaking of private army, mayroon din pong ganoong isyu diyan sa Socorro. Kaya ang tanong ko naman po kay Chief PNP: In the Senate hearings on this issue, it surfaced that many police officers or personnel went AWOL and joined SBSI. There are also reports that SBSI has a private army equipped with firearms. So may records po ba kayo , Chief PNP, tungkol sa mga police personnel na ito at yung kanilang status? At halimbawa po, sinurrender na po ba nila yung kanilang service firearms?

PGen. Benjamin Acorda: Yes, ma'am. With regards to these police officers who went on AWOL, these are (inaudible) personnel. And with regards to the private armed groups, part of that is mino-monitor talaga natin yung presensya ng threat from them. And based on the reports of our regional director there, ma'am, although there's some parang mga sinasabing firearms, and upon verification may mga kahoy na nakuha natin and there is no actual posession na baril na tunay na nakuha.

But with regards kung naisauli yung issued firearms ng ating kapulisan na nag-AWOL and joined this group, alamin ko lang po sa aming DMR kung properly turned over na po.

While waiting for the data, ang alam ko, they were properly (inaudible) and all the appropriate charges were filed against them. Based on the report of our Directorate for Personnel, na-dismiss na sila and if they fail to turn over their issued firearms, definitely the appropriate charges of malversation of public property will be filed against them.

Correction, ma'am, nai-turn over na po pala yung mga firearms po nila na issued.

SRH: Salamat po, Chief PNP. Yung tungkol doon sa upon inspection or verification, mga kahoy lamang na firearms ang nakita po ng PNP, kailangan i-square lang yun sa at least yung testimony naman na binigay ng NBI sa amin noong joint hearing namin ni Chair Doroy Dela Rosa na may sinabi po kasi ang NBI Region 12 na bago nila ipadala sana kaagad din yung mga ahente nila sa Kapihan ay nangailangan sila ng assurance na hindi mapapahamak yung ahenteng yun. At nung finollow-up ko po yun, bakit ganoon, ano yung pagkakilala sa grupo o sa komunidad? Ang sagot po nila ay dahil sa pagkakalaam nila ay armado yun at may kakayahang lumaban. At in fact, isa sa nakakabahalang testimonyang nakuha po namin, lalo na sa child victim-survivors at ilang mga adults din, ay sinasanay po sila at inoorganisa na mala-private army. So observation ko lang po, Chief PNP.

(...)

SRH: There's a recurring issue on dismissed or retired police officers using their training and even possibly their government-issued firearms for nefarious activities, halimbawa, yun na nga joining private armies or committing crimes. I remember yung anggulong pong iyon ay lumabas din nung inimbestiga, I think ni Chair Dela Rosa rin, yun namang assassination kay Negros Oriental Governor Degamo. So paano po ito matutugunan ng PNP?

PGen. Acorda: Actually, ma'am, that is now part of our measures na tinitingnan. We are now conducting inventory of our personnel, especially these skills na medyo hindi dapat basta-basta naipapasa kahit nino man. So nagi-inventory tayo niyan. And also with regards to this situation in Socorro, we really see that there is a problem doon sa area. That's why we established our personnel, the presence of our police personnel there.

Ang isang talagang nakakabahala, ma'am, even the filing of case. Way back 2021, talagang mya mga balak na tayong i-file na kaso, but it doesn't progress so we have to elevate it at the national level.

So yun yung mga measures na tinitingnan natin and kung hanggang saan makakaya ng kapulisan ma'am, we're giving our best. In our point of view kasi, ma'am, it's an engaged community. So dapat they have the full trust of the police. So we are establishing our presence there and we'll see to it na kung anong mga concerns, ang mga issues na dapat mailabas, it will be protected po.

SRH: Salamat, Chief PNP. At sana mas pamatig na ng PNP yung isyung iyon ng mga officers or personnel natin na kapag wala na po sa pwersa na hindi ginagamit ng masasamang elemento o hindi nila pinapagamit yung mataas na antas ng pagsasanay na binibigay ng national police natin sa kanila, binabayaran ng buwis ng mamamayan para lang gamitin ng mga masasamang grupo o tao o paggamit nila.

Kunbaga, hindi ko alam kung anong klaseng exit program ba o maigi, sabi niyo may monitoring na po kayo. Kumbaga, in terms of social capital, human capital ng ating gobyerno, ang bawat indibidwal ng PNP kabilang po doon, mahalaga.

PGen. Acorda: Opo, ma'am. Actually, yung conduct of training is not only limited to that area kaya talagang binigyan namin ng pansin ma'am to really strictly monitor yung conduct of training, wherein it involves the police even active at saka pati na po yung mga retired po.

SRH: Salamat po, Chief PNP. Yes, Mr. Chair, Secretary.

Sec. Abalos: Ma'am, if I might add, ano. Alam mo, napakababang edad ng retirement age ng ating kapulisyahan. If I'm not mistaken, 55 years old. Mabuti na lang sa bagong batas na finile po ni Senator Ronald, ito'y tatasan ng 57. So kung ikaw ay magre-retire ng 55 at that age, ano ang magiging trabaho mo? Yun ang mabigat. Kaya siguro yung iba, baka ma-tempt na mangyari ito. At ako'y natutuwa, nakausap ko ang aking kaibigan na si TESDA Teng Mangudadatu na nagkaroon sila ng parang MOA with ating Chief, with the Philippine National Police, na ite-train po sila. Nang sa ganun, at that age may mga skills na pwede pa nilang magamit sa ibang bagay. Siguro pwede pa i-expand ito with the DTI livelihood programs naman for entrepreneurship. These are some of the programs na pwedeng maisingit.

SRH: Salamat po para doon, Sec. And tulad ng pagsuporta ko doon sa naging batas natin raising the age of retirement of giving tenure and grade sa mga pinakamataas na mga opisyal natin sa AFP ay pag-aaralan kong maigi with a very open mind yung kumbaga counterpart measure naman para sa PNP.

(...)

SRH: Dako naman po ako sa scam hubs at POGOs. My committee, the Senate Committee on Women, has been quite invested in the issue of scam hubs and particularly scam hubs in the Philippines. Alam ko po naitanong na rin ni Sen. Sherwin kanina kung sumasangayon yung PNP na yung mga POGOs ay dapat umalis na sa bansa. At sinabi kanina ni Chief PNP Acorda na kung hindi sila ma-monitor at ma-regulate nang maigi, mas maigi nang umalis sila. And for the record, Mr. Chair, naa-appreciate ko talaga yung ganyang statement ni Chief PNP, sir.

So yung unang tanong ko po tungkol dito, in his confirmation hearing before the Commission on Appointments, DND Secretary Teodoro said that Chinese workers are being closely watched for covert activities like spying. Considering that it's the PNP that has its boots on the ground, is there any evidence -- kahit ano ba, evidence o indication -- na ang mga Chinese workers, tulad halimbawa ng mga empleyado o manggagawa sa POGO companies ay kumikilos laban sa ating Pilipinong national security interests?

PGen Acorda: As far as the PNP is concerned, ma'am, with regards to information that will directly say that there is a threat to our national security, wala pa naman tayong nakikita. Especially in the presence of these POGO operations. But I am seeing also at the early stage that we can initiate measures that really the national interest is always protected, mas maganda po, ma'am.

SRH: Salamat, Chief PNP. Siguro patuloy na maga-update din po kami mula sa Senado kung anuman ang aming findings o recommendations kaugnay din nito as they apply to the PNP at yung mandate po ninyo.

Still on these scam hubs, pwede ho bang i-furnish yung opisina ko ng updated information sa bilang ng mga perpetrators disaggregated by nationality? Yung bilang po ng mga biktima na nare-rescue, disaggregated din by nationality. At saka yung current status po ng mga perpetrators at yung mga victim-survivors doon po sa mga scam hub raids na pinamumunuan ng PNP anti-crime group.

PGen. Acorda: Yes, ma'am, we have this data. It is being reported to us and updated. So far, we can give you this data ma'am, kung anong gusto niyong period covered ma'am, kung ano yung mga nature of crimes committed.

SRH: Siguro sir, yung last several years na nag-operate ang mga POGO dito sa ating bansa, perhaps the last seven years. Pati na yung last few years na nabunyag po namin dito sa Senado na kahit sa ilalim po ng mga legit na POGO companies, yung mayron pong lisensya ng PAGCOR, eh may nakatago kung ilan-ilan po na mga scam hubs na po. Pati yung nage-engage in human trafficking palabas o paloob at saka nage-engage sa crypto scamming.

PGen. Acorda: Yes, ma'am, we will provide that data, ma'am.

SRH: Maraming salamat po. Ngayon po ba, mayroon kahit broad strokes disaggregated by nationality? Sino-sino ang majority ng mga perpetrators? Sino-sino ang mga majority ng victim-survivors? At kamusta na yung status nitong dalawang grupo?

PGen. Acorda: It is the Chinese nationals that are mostly involved in these crimes, ma'am.

SRH: Tapos karamihan po ng mga victim-survivors, ano pong nationality or nationalities nila? Mga nare-rescue po.

PGen. Acorda: What is common to these rescued foreign nationals, ma'am, regardless kung Vietnamese, Cambodian or Malaysian, they are all Chinese-speaking, ma'am.

SRH: That's very interesting, Chief PNP. At siguro nagse-square doon sa characteristic ng POGO companies na talagang ang market na tina-target maakit na lumaro sa mga online games ay mga mainland Chinese. So kaya po siguro. I would say, ito po yung dahilan na yung karamihan ng nare-rescue ninyo ay Chinese-speaking, iba't-iba man ang nationality nila.

At again, in general broad strokes, ano na po ang status nitong mga nahuling perpetrators at mga na-rescue na victim-survivors, generally speaking, sir?

PGen. Acorda: Except for those who were charged, ma'am, they were deported na. They were processed by our Bureau of Immigration and also in coordination with the foreign counterparts, ma'am.

SRH: So may ilang na-charge. Would we say minority ito or majority yung mga naaresto na na-charge at minority ba o majority ang na-deport?

PGen. Acorda: Based sa mga iba-ibang operation, ma'am, the recent one was in Hongtai.

(...)

SRH: Sabi niyo kanina, sir, karamihan ng nare-rescue na mga victim-survivors ay Vietnamese, Cambodian, Malaysian, bagamat ang common characteristic nila, marunong magsalita ng Chinese. And then sabi niyo nga po, may mga naaresto na na-charge, pero yung iba na-deport. May percentages ba kayo? Anong percentage po yung na-charge? Anong percentage po ang na-deport?

PBGen. Sidney Hernia, PNP-ACG: Unang-una, ma'am, ang treatment po namin doon sa mga inabutan naming operations, almost all of them were treated as victims.

Let me just go first to the first major operation of ACG is Sun Valley. More than a thousand foreigners ang naabutan po ng operating troops doon sa site. And out of these more than a thousand, and nakasuhan po natin ay kakaunti lang po. Nasa 10 lang yung ating nakasuhan. But we are preparing other cases. So madadagdagan pa itong ating mga suspects.

Now the status of the suspects, they are now in jail. The case, I think, is in the third reading already. We have filed the violation of the anti-human trafficking law. And the rest of these victims, almost a thousand of them, were already repatriated. I'd like to say this -- hindi po sila dineport. But they were repatriated already to their respective countries.

Doon po sa Sun Valley, karamihan po doon ay Vietnamese.

Dito naman po sa another major operations conducted by ACG sa Las Piñas, ang foreigners po dito ay about 1,300.

SRH: Ito po sir yung Xinchuang Network Technologies?

PBGen. Hernia: Yes po, ma'am. And out of these more than a thousand foreigners, more or less 200 of them were already deported. Hindi po ito repatriated, they were deported. They availed of the voluntary deportation. So lahat po sila, more or less 200, na-deport na po. Mayroon na lang pong naiwan na dalawa na lang po na nasa custody ng ACG na dalawang Chinese.

The others, around 800 plus, ito po yung ni-release po ng korte ng Las Piñas by virtue of habeas corpus. So sila po ay tinurn over namin to their respective counsels. So as to their specific whereabouts, as of this time ay wala po kaming malinaw na information kung nasaan po sila. Pero per our record po, they were released to their respective counsels.