Transcript of Interpellation of Senator Risa Hontiveros during the Senate plenary debates on the 2024 OVP budget

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): In 2022, the confidential funds of the Office of the Vice-President (OVP) were augmented by P125 million from the Office of the President's (OP). During the proceedings of the House of Representatives, it was stated that the OVP submitted a liquidation report covering these funds. Currently, the Commission on Audit (COA) is auditing the use of this P125 million, and has committed to finish by the 15th of this month. What is the status of this audit? Sayang di lang umabot dito sa ating plenary interpellation. Ano na po yung status ng audit na ito?

Sen. Sonny Angara: I'm not sure, but maybe we can ask the COA when they come before us next week. they would be in a best position to answer.

SRH: The Chair is not in receipt of any initial findings of the COA?

SSA: No, your Honor.

SRH: Thank you. The said fund transfer/augmentation is being challenged. As a long time Senator and as our Committee on Finance Chair, ano po ang tingin niyo ang pwedeng pinaka-prudent na policy kaugnay ng augmentation ng isang budget category na hindi na-allocate naman ang funds in the first place? Dapat bang iregulate ang ganitong practice o kaya ipagbawal pa natin, ng Kongreso?

SSA: Thank you, your Honor. What I was told was that this was not an augmentation because an augmentation has a very technical meaning in budgetary terms. What I was told that this was a release from the contingent funds thus not subject to the rules set forth in laws and jurisprudence, which pertains specifically to augmentation of savings which are authorized to be done by the Senate President, by the President, by the Chief Justice and other officials who were permitted explicitly by the Constitution.

SRH: Salamat, good chair. Conceding for the moment na at least sa ngayon hindi pa subject sa rules at procedures ng augmentation - at pinagdedebatehan pa nga diba kung augmentation pa nga yung nangyari o ibang proses.

Still, kung hindi pa (unclear) yung rules at procedures ng augmentation, such a move of big money from the most important office of government to the second most important office of government, syempre kailangang siyang ngayon sana or eventually sooner or later mag-govern ng mga rules at saka procedures.

So kapagka nabuo o mabubuo na yung rules and procedures na iyon, ano ang tingin ng good Chair na dapat maging prudent policy tungkol sa ganyang klaseng augmentation man yan, release man yan, basta paglipat ng malaking pondo mula sa importanteng opisina papunta sa importanteng opisina? Hindi ba dapat maregulate ang ganitong practice, or even given na ganito kalabo yung existing procedures or given kung paano naging kontrobersyal itong mismong paglipat ng perang ito di kaya dapat ipagbawal ng Kongreso?

SSA: Sa akin, Ma'am, medyo specific na ho yung nasa batas natin ngayon kasama na po ang mga desisyon ng Korte Suprema specifically yung Araullo decision. Dahil doon, nakalagay doon kung ano yung mga patakaran sa paglilipat ng pondo. And again I'm referring to the augmentation of budgetary items, meaning specifically savings.

At doon pag yan ang pinag uusapan, yang kategoryang yan ay mayroon ho talagang very specific rules, bukod sa Constitution o Saligang Batas mayroon ding nakalagay sa mga desisyon. So bawal po yung cross border transfers, kailangang existing po yung budgetary item bago ma-augment siya ng ibang pondo galing sa savings. Ito pong nangyari dito sa OVP ito po ay release mula sa contingent fund ho which is for 2022 was P13 billion and it is still the same amount to this day. At ito pong contingent fund ay sumasagot po sa mga pangangailangan ng gobyerno, iba po ang patakaran dito dahil hindi nga ito augmentation ng savings, iba po ang patakaran pagdating sa pagrelease o paglabas ng pera mula sa contingent fund, your Honor.

SRH: Salamat Mr. President. Kaya nga interesante at tingin ko rin po ay importante yung sinimulan nating pinag usapan natin kahapon mual sa kasalukuyang special provision tungkol sa contingent fund na nagpapayag at nagbabawal din sa mga specific kinds of releases, nagbabawal, halimbawa sa paggamit sa contingent fund para sa motor vehicles. Kaya po binuksan ko na rin kahapon yung posibleng, at the proper time, pag-amyenda na ipagbawal din mula sa contingent fund ang pag-augment, pagrelease o paglipat patungo sa CIF ng ibang opisina, Mr. President and good sponsor. Yung diskusyon natin ay magiging very timely at the appropriate time.

Siguro Mr. President, good sponsor, yung susunod na punto ko pwede po bang magprovide ang chair kahit ng general details kung paano yung P125 million na iyon ay ginastos, ano, considering na yung said amount ay inexpend sa loob ng 11 araw?

Malay natin, may leksyon dito, may best practices ang OVP, na yung mga ibang ahensya, gamit ito, ay pwedeng pagandahin yung kanilang absorptive capacity, considering na yung underspending - gaya ng sinimulan natin pag usapan kahapon - ay major problem pa rin sa ating diskusyon sa interpellation kahapon.

SSA: Ito po yung kaakibat ng pag-iimplement ng "safe implementation of the programs, activities, and projects of the Office of the Vice President to alleviate poverty and promote the general welfare.

Nakita natin sa komite, your Honor, napakarami pong program ng OVP - from libreng sakay, yung pagbubukas po ng maraming satellite offices, yung pagbibigay ng tulong sa libing, sa pagamot, sa napakarami po. There were so many services po that were provided by the OVP.

SRH: So ibig sabihin, Mr. President and good sponsor, yung P125 million ginastos sa 11 araw o on average P11.3 million a day, ay ginamit lahat yan para lang ligtas na maiimplementa ang libreng sakay, ang pagbubukas ng satellite offices, o magpalibing, magpagamot, na itong lahat, yung pagsisiguro ng kaligtasan nito, yan ay umabot sa on average ay P11.3 million a day?

SSA: Yung 11 days, yun po yung period ng disbursement ng pera po. If you include the period for obligations, it will be actually 19 days. And if you look at the services performed, or the use of the funds, it goes beyond actually, whether it is 11 days or 19 days. 19 days pertaining from the date the SARO was issued, which allows the agency to obligate funds, to the day it is finally paid for, where the contract or services are finally paid and thus the cash is considered disbursed.

That does not mean that all the services or all the information will be given on those days. Meaning, the information could have been given subsequent to the contracting and disbursing of the money. Tapos yung confidential fund is used to ensure safe entry for implementation of the programs and of course, of the Vice President and her staff to various points of the archipelago.

For instance sa Surigao, sa BARMM, in other provinces, mayroon ho talagang mga insurgencies dyan so kailangan medyo siguraduhin na maganda yung pagpasok ng mga programa tsaka ng party ni VP and to guarantee that the program implementation is also always data driven.

Thus the OVP was able to enter several geographically isolated and disadvantaged areas, for instance in San Remigio, where they distributed Pagbabago bags, school supplies and dental kits to Grade 1 and Grade 4 school children in 33 barangays. And the CF is also used for purposes of continuous monitoring and validation of claims, especially for those made or lodged in the satellite offices. So sa Bulacan po the OVP validated complaints that were persons selling OVP assistance and forms. So mayroon mga ganitong instances na talagang kinakailangan po.

SRH: Sige po, Mr. President, good sponsor. Sabihin natin for the sake of argument, na ginastos yung P125 million sa 19 days, still, P6.5 million a day iyan.

So kahit itanong po natin yung ibang pinag-kagastusan nila, yung information sa different provinces and regions lalo na yung apektado pa rin ng insurgency, eh sigurado naman hindi lang OVP security ang nag-sesecure ng OVP whether the head of office, or the personnel, or the implementers ng programa, pero yung AFP at PNP on the ground.

Well and good, data driven dapat yung mga programa, yung GIDA areas, ito rin po ay termino ng Department of Health, malamang sa hindi or posible, nakikipagugnayan ang OVP sa mga programa, activities at proyektong iyon sa DOH. Hindi kaya yung mga bag, school supplies at dental kits ay tumatawid na sa budget ng DepEd, na concurrently hinehead ng Vice President?

Again, even with this listing, palagay ko lamang po, Mr. President, resonable pa ring itanong na bakit posibleng umabot sa P11.3 million a day ang gastos? And in any case po, just for the sake of thinking aloud, hindi po ba pwedeng iconvert yung mga worthwhile programs sa mga ito into line items sa budget?

SSA: Your Honor, actually the funds were requested as early as August of 2022. But the SARO or the authority to obligate and disburse the money was only given in December. So talaga, obligado din silang gastusin yung pera. Kasi kung hindi, diba mayroon tayong modified cash-based budgeting? You lose it or you use it. Pag hindi mo ginastos yung pera, maaring mawala sa ahensya mo iyan, diba?

SRH: Yes, thank you Mr. President, good sponsor. Kung ano man, kung yung SARO narelease sa Disyembre, still... Kaya yung interes at curiosity ng publiko, "Bakit at paano nakagastos ng ganyang kalaki sa napakaikling panahon lamang?"

And good sponsor, were any of the programs that the good sponsor mentioned funded with confidential funds?

SSA: No, your Honor. They strictly adhere to the joint budget circular issued by the DBM and the COA which lists the permissible expenses for CIF, your Honor, for confidential and intelligence funds, namely yung purchase of information, yung rental of safehouses. And of course they were conscious of the items which are not allowed to be spent under the same circular.

SRH: So kung hindi po, paano sila pinondohan kung hindi doon sa CIF, Mr. President?

SSA: Well they have regular budgets also, your Honor, which they can access, budgets for MOOE, for capital outlay. Those are all at their disposal.

SRH: So lalo pong lumalaki yung misteryo kung paano ginastos ang CIF na P125 million sa loob lamang ng 11 araw kung hindi man lahat, pero kung marami sa mga binanggit na pinagkagastusan ay cinover naman ng regular budgets, at alinsunod sa utos ng COA, hindi ginastusan ng confidential at intelligence funds.

So salamat kaayo Mr. President, salamat good sponsor, those are actually all my questions for the OVP budget for today. I will be back at the proper time to propose amendments to the OVP budget for the consideration of the good sponsor and the plenary.

SSA: Thank you, your Honor, Vice Chair Senator Risa. We will be happy to discuss with you any possible proposed amendments.