[TRANSCRIPT] Q&A of Senator Risa Hontiveros and DOH Secretary Herbosa during the CA hearing

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): One of the SONA commitments of the President is to release the long overdue allowances and the benefits of healthcare workers who worked at the height of COVID-19.

Mr. Secretary, ang akin pong opisina ay patuloy din na nakatatanggap ng reklamo patungkol sa health emergency allowance, yung HEA. Some reports have alleged that government owes our HCWs around P26 billion for unpaid allowances and benefits.

Narinig ko po yung sinabi ni Secretary kanina na may na-release na P4 na bilyon. So medyo malayo pa yung pupunuin para makumpleto yung sinasabing P26 billion.

So maaari po bang itanong Mr. Secretary, ilang claims pa o anong halaga pa ng mga claims that remain unsettled? Magkano po yun? At ano yung timetable para i-settle yung remaining claims?

Secretary Herbosa: Thank you Ma'am Chair. Mr. Chair, ang GAA for 2022, na-disburse na nila is P22 billion para sa health emergency allowance. Yung sinasabi kong P4 billion is for the 2023 General Appropriations Act. Ang na-allocate doon was P27 billion and nagre-release na tayo unti-unti as the Department of Budget and Management releases this to us.

So ang disbursement yun based on what is given, almost 90.9% disbursed na yung unang releases. So ang total claims na na-grant na po ay P8,040,980. So for the total, parang ang total po ay P72 billion po ang total talaga na dapat bayaran. Ang unprogrammed po ay P52 billion. So for this year, sa GAA, 19 ang naka-program at 52 yung mga nasa unprogrammed

So we are awaiting release. I have requested DBM to also release so that our healthcare workers will be given their due benefits, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat Mr. Secretary. So klaruhin ko lang para kung malinaw sa akin, malinaw din po sa mga healthcare workers na nakikinig sa atin. So sabi niyo po, 2022, yung nasa GAA was P22 billion. PYung 22B po ba yun para sa 2022, covered na po lahat ng obligation natin sa mga healthcare workers para sa taong iyon?

Secretary Herbosa: Hindi pa ma'am. Kasi we are asking 25. Ang current request ko po ay P25.96 billion. This is for the November 29 kami sumulat sa DBM to release na this remainder para mabigay sa ating healthcare workers, Madam Chair.

SRH: Okay. Salamat po Mr. Secretary. Para sa 2023, sabi niyo nga po na ang nasa GAA ay 27 billion pesos. Binanggit niyo na P4 billion ay na-allocate na. Pero later may binanggit din po kayong may 90.9% na ang na-release. Was that for year 2023 also?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair.

SRH: So for 2023, may less than 10% na lang na utang po natin sa healthcare workers na hindi pa po nare-release.

Secretary Herbosa: That's correct, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Mr. Secretary. Sabi niyo rin po, total claims granted so far, tama po ba? P8 million or P8 billion?

Secretary Herbosa: Eight million workers. Eight million persons that claimed.

SRH: So eight million healthcare workers ang nag-grant na po. Out of ilang total ang dapat mabigyan?

Secretary Herbosa: I think around 10 million workers itong estimate, ma'am.

SRH: So kung gayon, Mr. Secretary, may dalawang milyon pa na kailangan pa nating bayaran yung utang natin.

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat po, Mr. Secretary. And then, may binanggit po kayong P72 billion requested, tama po ba? Pero unprogrammed ay P52 billion pesos. Para sa aling taon po iyon?

Secretary Herbosa: Madam Chair, for 2023, ang unprogrammed ay P52 billion. Ang NEP na nilagay namin sa budget ng 2024 is P19 billion. So ang total lahat ng dalawa, 52 plus 19 ay P72 billion. Pag nabigay po lahat yan, covered na natin yung 10 million workers, Madam Chair.

SRH: And then, mayroon din kayong binanggit kanina na P90 billion pero P52 billion unprogrammed. Para sa anong taon po iyon?

Secretary Herbosa: For GAA, 2020. For 2023, we have allotted P19.7 billion which was programmed and P52 [billion] which was unprogrammed. Yun yung na-release na sa amin. Na-release na ang P4 billion noon.

SRH: And then, huli po, sabi nyo nga po, itong nakaraang buwan, Nobyembre, may request po kayo na P25.96 billion na iniintay mai-release po sa department.

Secretary Herbosa: Nai-release na.

SRH: So, overall po, magkano na lang ang unsettled mula po sa unang taon ng pandemya hanggang ngayon? Ilan pong claims ito at ang magkano po yung total na kulang pa nating ibayad?

Secretary Herbosa: Ang arrears po namin for 2021, '22, and '23 ay P62.9 billion pa.

SRH: At kung gayon, ano po yung timetable para i-settle itong remaining P62B+?

Secretary Herbosa: Ah, sa NEP, meron tayong, sa 2024, Madam Chair, naglagay din tayo dyan ng P22 billion, I think. So, mababawa, mga unti-unting nababawasan every year.

SRH: So, at this rate po, Mr. Secretary, posibleng natatan siya ng department na within three years, mababayaran nyo na po lahat ng utang pa nating HEA sa healthcare workers.

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair, or shorter, hopefully.

SRH: Okay po. So, pwede po natin sabihin sa mga healthcare workers natin, at the latest, plano po ng department na by year 2026, kung hindi man mas maaga, makukuha na po nila?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Mr. Secretary. And lastly on this topic, may posibilidad ba na mapaaga pa yung timetable? Ang sabi nyo po kasi at the latest, within three years. At the earliest po, ano yung nakikita nyong kakayanin gawin ng department?

Secretary Herbosa: Madam Chair, kasi kung unprogrammed funds, basta may taxes. Mas ma-collect ang national government, the DBM can release us this money. So, we're hoping that there will be more taxes paid.

Kasi ang sabi nila, konti ang nakolek noong 2021-2022. And that's the reason, hindi nila mabigay lahat. But if our growth rate's high, I think there will be money to actually release it earlier, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Chair. Siyempre gusto po ng healthcare workers natin, mabayaran po ito nang mas maaga. Pero bilang sila rin po ay taxpayers, consumers, mahirap yung balancing act kasi in terms of additional taxes. Pero salamat po sa mga sagot niyo sa unang paksang ito.

Oh, and lastly po, on the HEA, na-inform po ako na nag-establish ang department ng grievance board para investigahan yung failure ng pag-grant ng COVID-19 benefits at allowances sa eligible healthcare workers. Pwede po bang itanong paano itong grievance boards, paano nila ini-intend na i-address yung bottlenecks para sa wakas makuha na nga po ng HCWs natin yung ano yung dues sa kanila?

Secretary Herbosa: Thank you, Madam Chair. Ang process po ng Department of Health has a list of the healthcare workers that are due their benefits and then the money is allocated to the regional offices of the Department of Health who then allocates them to the hospital, based on the listing.

So, yung grievances are mostly people who are not paid, who were in the list or was removed by their director. So, hindi sila maka-complain sa director nila. So, they complain to our regional office. So, yung regional directors namin ang maga-ano ng grievance committee and we will settle it with the hospital director to make sure that those who really served in the COVID wards will be paid.

The other grievance naman is, nag-serve sila pero na-downgrade yung kanilang category from medium risk to low risk, which means smaller yung amount na natatanggap nila. So, yun yung second ina-address namin. And we have made some amendments like security guards that are in the front in the ER. Parang in-upgrade namin sila so that they will get the correct benefits due them, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Mr. Secretary, at na-anticipate nyo yung isang follow-up question ko. So, malinaw po sa akin na yung grievance boards ay nasa regional level pala dun sa regional offices niyo. And then, pababa sila sa hospital para tugunan kung anumang grievance mayroon.

And then, bukod po dun sa binanggit nyo ng ilang amendments, security guards, ano pa yung ibang action points na ginagawa ng DOH para sa wakas i-address itong recurring issue ng HCW's allowances kung meron pong ibang action points?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes. So, because of those, Madam Chair, naisip namin na mag-create na diretso na lang sa ATM noong mga healthcare workers. So, nakikipag-usap kami sa Landbank and DBP. Kung minsan, kung may Landbank account sila at DBP account sila. Kasi, ma'am, nasa private hospitals ito. So, some of them don't have that. So, that was the other process that would simplify it na hindi na dadaan sa hospital director at diretso sa bank account ng ating mga workers. So, pinag-aaralan ito.

I think yung iba pumayag nag-set up ng Landbank accounts. Tapos, meron kaming dashboard din na sinet up parang website na pwedeng puntahan: doh.gov.ph. At may quick link doon para makita nila kung anong status ng HEA.

SRH: Salamat po, Secretary. At sana kung mag-work out po yung pag-uusap ng Department nyo sa Landbank at DBP, mapag-isipan din paano naman yung provision sa mga private hospital workers. Lalo na po, gaya ng sinabi nyo, na walang account dito sa mga government banks natin. Salamat, Secretary.

Dako ako sa pangalawang paksa ko, yung COA findings sa Pharmally scandal. During my interpellation of the budget of the Commission on Audit, I followed up on their audit of DOH's procurement of COVID-19 supplies involving the procurement service of the DBM and Pharmally Pharmaceutical Corporation.

Some of the findings I was made aware of include non-compliance of DOH to MOA requirements for the transfer of funds amounting to P47.65 billion, failure of DOH to the DBA, and failure of DOH to the DBA, failure of DOH to provide PS-DBM complete technical specifications and other relevant standards or requirements on COVID-19 items in the agency's procurement requests, failure of DOH to appropriately exercise administrative control in ensuring the availability of PPEs and medical supplies, and failure of DOH to exert efforts in monitoring the liquidation of the P47B+ funds transferred to PS-DBM.

Matanong lang po, ang good Secretary po ba made aware po nitong COA findings na ito?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes Madam Chair, we were made aware of this and we will try to comply

whatever legal processes will continue thereafter. So susunod po tayo sa batas, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat po Mr. Secretary. Dahil dumako na rin po tayo dun sa usapin ng compliance, aware po ba ang DOH management sa mga COA recommendations para i-address itong adverse findings? Paano po yung DOH management nagi-intend na ipatupad itong mga rekomendasyon para hindi na maulit muli ang mga iregularidad na ito, lalo't higit ay maibalik ang pondong hindi nagamit na nananatili pang nakalagak sa PS-DBM?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes Madam Chair, meron tayong ongoing case din with the Ombudsman regarding this after the Senate investigations. So we will comply. And then we've also asked our own audit to actually do audit of all those that were procured during that time, Madam Chair.

SRH: Ah okay po. So bukod pa po sa special audit ng COA, ang DOH audit ay magsasagawa rin ng sarili niyang audit. Alright. Salamat po Mr. Secretary.

And huli po sa paksang ito, fully aware of the role that the good Secretary is an adviser to the National Task Force on COVID-19, paano niyo po, Secretary, ini-intend na singilin yung accountability mula sa mga DOH officials na involved sa massive failure na ito

na proteksyunan ang mga public funds at halos nakompromiso yung ating COVID-19 prevention and control?

Secretary Herbosa: Madam Chair, with regards to those findings, we will allow the court to make the decision, maybe the Ombudsman or Sandigan. And we will comply with whatever decision these bodies come out with, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Secretary. At the same time, sabi niyo kanina, magko-conduct ang DOH ng sarili niyang audit. So based sa mga posibleng findings at rekomendasyon na iyon, meron ba kayong kino-contemplate na mga posibleng paraan moving forward? Both to exact accountability for the recent past, at saka para siguruhin yung higit pang accountability moving forward?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair. We will do that. We will actually try to improve our processes so these incidents will not happen in the future, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Secretary. Ngayon, gusto kong magtanong ng ilang mga tanong tungkol sa mga tinawag na questionable conduct.

Good Secretary, you've been involved in quite a few controversies in which you voiced out your opinions or shared something on social media. Some of them were your remarks during the height of the pandemic in 2020 against the community pantry, such as "death by community pantry," and "I told you so" about the death of Orlando de la Cruz, who collapsed while queuing for actor Angel Locsin's community pantry in Quezon City.

In a statement made by the UP Department of English and Comparative Literature on 23rd April 2021, it was said that your remarks regarding community pantries, specifically of their proponent, Ana Patricia Non, were dangerous and malignant. It was further stated that your baseless questioning of "Ka Patreng" and "May kulay ka ba o wala?" insinuated that Ms. Non was part of the Communist Party of the Philippines.

Another one was a screenshot of an anecdote you shared on your Facebook account in October 2020, in which a father is comparing rape, romance, and marriage to his son. "The father in the story noted that clothes is the mere difference among the three,

saying, in rape, you tear the clothes, in romance, you remove the clothes, In marriage, you wash the clothes." Herbosa captioned this with, laughter is the best medicine.

I saw, Mr. Secretary, that you already tried to make amends by tendering your resignation at UP and posting public apologies on these matters. But today, can the good Secretary comment on these, considering that you're being appointed as the head of an executive department and your statements about healthcare workers, the community pantries, and red-tagging were criticized for being insensitive and offensive?

Secretary Herbosa: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. For the joke that I posted, I was immediately informed by our Gender and Women's Studies to take it down. And within two hours, I actually took it down. And I think the spread was more of the people who captured it and recirculated it. I also underwent gender sensitivity training for a day with the head herself of the Gender and Women's Studies because of this post.

For the community pantry, I actually resigned as executive vice president of the University of Philippines because of the response against my post. And I made a formal apology and I continue to apologize for that statement. And I respect the rights of people who want to actually get food or give food to people that need in time of epidemic like what happened to us, Madam Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SRH: Thank you, Secretary. And can this honorable body have your commitment not to repeat such conduct?

Secretary Herbosa: I have already learned early on as in the past few days that any comment the Secretary of Health makes on media is already taken as policy. So, I will be very careful and wary regarding these lessons I have learned in the past, Madam Chair.

SRH: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And lastly, on this important topic, you said earlier that you continue to apologize for these statements and actions?

Secretary Herbosa: That is correct. Because now I've learned the value of respecting women, number two, and also for community pantries, respecting the rights of people

who are expressing their opinions, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat po, Mr. Secretary.

Ilang tanong po tungkol sa transfer of PhilHealth supervision to the Office of the President. Under the DOH's Department Order Number 2023-2606, dated 12th May 2023, a joint technical working group was created for the proposed transfer of PhilHealth to the Office of the President.

As stated in the order, the functions of the TWG are: Revisit laws and issuances pertaining to the creation, mandates and functions of the PhilHealth; Assess technical and strategic aspects of the proposal; Call resource persons from concerned offices; and submit a comprehensive report with the recommendations to the OP.

However, nothing was mentioned about the context and rationale behind this proposal. So, pwede niyo po bang ibahagi yung rationale sa likod ng panukalang ito?

Secretary Herbosa: Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, I was not privy to the rationale for this, because this happened prior to my appointment as Secretary of Health on June 5. But I received the report of the technical working group and transmitted it to the Office of the President.

And in that report, they see no legal impediment in the transfer. However, the composition of the board requires legal amendments because the Chair of the Board is still the Secretary of Health. So that's written in the Charter or the law of PhilHealth. So that has to be modified.

As a personal view, ma'am, I see no value in transferring PhilHealth to the Office of the President, since the alter ego of the President is anyway the Secretary of Health.

So as long as it continues to perform its duties, that means paying the health benefits of its members, I think we should be able to be true to the mandate of the Charter of PhilHealth, Madam Chair.

SRH: Maraming salamat para doon, Secretary. I'm really glad to hear you say that. Kasi, tatanungin ko sana, okay walang legal impediments pero kayo, bilang Secretary, bilang doktor pa, anong tingin ninyo? And I really appreciate your take on this matter. Tama lang yun bilang Secretary ng Department of Health at kayo yung nagpapatupad ng Universal Health Care Law, kung saan yung PhilHealth ay isang essential pillar of health financing and insurance.

So hindi ko na kailangang itanong yung underlyin institutional issues ng PhilHealth at paano daw mare-resolba yung mga yun sa paglipat ng supervision ng PhilHealth sa OP. Ni yung tanong na paano yung proposed transfer i-improve yung performance at benefit delivery ng PhilHealth. Salamat sa pagbanggit niyo na yung improvement ng benefit delivery ay isang tatrabahuhin pa ng Department, partikular sa pamamagitan ng PhilHealth.

At yung pinakatanong ko sana ay bago niyo sinabing you don't see any benefit in that transfer, ay bakit kino-consider ng PhilHealth i-relinquish yung kanyang responsibilidad at accountability bilang principal national health authority in charge sa PhilHealth.

Siguro huling tanong na lang, maybe as a way of lesson learned also moving forward, would you know kung yung mga key stakeholders nakonsulta ng TWG? Kasi noon iniulat na members of the medical community expressed their opposition to the proposed transfer and there was also a claim then that Dr. Jose Rene Degrano, the President of the Private Hospitals Association of the Philippines, was not consulted?

Secretary Herbosa: Di ko jo alam yung mga detalye doon sa proseso. Pero I also personally gave my views about this transfer to the Office of the Executive Secretary, at mukhang nasunod naman po kasi hindi na-announce na ito ay ilipat sa Office of the President. So I think they are listening to the advice of the Secretary of Health, Madam Chair, thank you.

SRH: I certainly hope so, Secretary. At kung ano ang kakailanganin para klaruin ito sa publiko, I don't know if it's an action by DOH regarding yung department personnel order ninyo noon or just a final official announcement from the Office of the President para mapanatag ang loob. I'm sure kayo po sa executive, you'll know kung ano yung proper form of official communication dito.

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair, we'll comply. We will comply.

SRH: Salamat, good Secretary. So huling paksa na lang po yung 2022 COA findings. Our reading of the COA audit report on the fiscal year 2022 funds of the DOH reveals three perennial issues of DOH. One, the low utilization of funds. Two, wastage of funds. And three, deficiencies in the procurement process.

I wish to ask the Secretary some questions regarding these structural problems. But first, allow me please, Mr. Chair, to share some figures lifted from the 2022 COA audit report on DOH.

So the Commission on Audit noted that DOH had low utilization of new appropriations from the Fiscal Year 2022 GAA and specific budgets in the continuing appropriations in Fiscal Year 2021. Under the Fiscal Year 2022 COA, DOH received total allotments worth P181.6 billion pesos. Of this amount, the department managed to obligate P156.9 billion and disbursed P122.4 billion. This translates to an obligation rate of 87% and a disbursement rate of 78%.

Maari po bang malaman kung aware yung Secretary sa mga figures na ito at kung na-brief na sila tungkol sa spending performance ng department?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair. These were the first few things that came to me when I sat down as Secretary of Health that there was very low budget utilization. And since then, I have instructed our Department to go several ways forward and catch up with, improve the Department of Health utilization.

So we've tried to identify yung mga blocks in implementation, especially of infrastructure projects, yung modification. We also are trying to streamline our procedures and policies to accelerate all of this. And also in coordination with other agencies to improve the timing of fund releases. We also like to do better planning and early procurement activities. Ngayong may NEP na, we are actually starting our early procurement activities so that when the GAA is signed, these awards can already be given.

So we've also, for this year, started to issue catch-up plans for budgets that have not yet been utilized and monitor all these projects. So hopefully, we can streamline all of this.

One of the things I'd like to see is an asset management system that means from procurement all the way to disposal, we can procure vaccines, medicines on time and be delivered to the people on time, Madam Chair. Thank you.

SRH: Salamat, Secretary. I really hope all of these plans materialize. At sa pamamagitan siguro, pangunahin ng catch-up plans. And just relating it to the first question that we discussed earlier, Secretary, so I'm looking forward also na kasama sa catch-up plans, yung pagbayad nga po ng HEA sa mga healthcare workers natin by 2026 at the latest or hopefully earlier.

So dahil na-brief po ang Secretary, sabi nyo nga so among the first few things na naging aware kayo bilang Secretary, maari rin po ba malaman yung latest budget utilization figures ng DOH kaugnay ng 2022 continuing appropriations at fiscal year 2023 new appropriations, kung meron na pong figures na ito?

Secretary Herbosa: Alam ko ma'am, yung 2022 ay nasa 99% almost already yung CONAP 2022. And for the current year 2023, as of November 15, two weeks ago po, 74% na ang aming disbursement rate. 74%.

Sa CONAP, ang disbursement, obligation ng mataas, ang disbursement, remaining CONAP is 65% po ang na-utilize na, ang na-disburse na. So ang grand total namin for disbursement for the CONAP in the current year is 73%, as of November 15, Madam Chair.

SRH: So confident naman po kayo na sa loob nitong natirang buwan ng taong ito, ay madi-disburse na rin po yung balance of 27%?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair. I was told parang bumibilis pagdating ng November, December, ang utilization talagang hinahabol po, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Secretary. So huling tanong ko po ngayong umaga, if we look at the specific funds, COA flagged several PAPs of DOH, which posted low fund utilization or low disbursement rates. Some of the programs that had disbursement rates, lower than than 50% include the Cancer Assistance Fund, 15.7%, the Philippine COVID-19 Emergency Response Project, 18.5%, the one of the most important Health Facilities Enhancement Program, HFEP, 34.3%, the Health System Enhancement to Address and Limit COVID-19,

a measly 0.11%, and ito napaka-importante rin po sa amin, bilang mga kababaihan, family health, immunization, nutrition, and responsible parenting, 18.1%.

So huling mga tanong po, aware po ba ang Secretary sa status nitong mga programa? As far as I know, these are major and urgent programs of DOH. Alam po ba ng Secretary yung mga dahilan sa likod ng low fund utilization ng DOH sa mga ito?

Secretary Herbosa: Yes, Madam Chair. For the Cancer Assistance Fund, late po na-release yung SARO by September lang po kami na-releasan. So after that, na-utilize na.

Yung sa HFEP, Madam Chair, it's mostly modifications because sometimes there are funds allocated to a health center. Tapos may nauna na palang funds na ni-release yung local government. So papalipat nila yun to another health center that needs it. So yun yung natatagalan and that's the one causing some of our delay.

The other ones are things that were allocated to the DOH, but we were not included in the planning. Ito, ma'am, yung mga insertions. So later namin nakukuha, wala pa palang detailed architectural and engineering designs. So hinahabol na lang namin yun. We catch up for those.

So yan ang mga a few of the things I know that have caused the delay in low budget utilization and part ng catch-up plan namin that the future HFEP magamit talaga. Tapos yung, sa mga cancer funds, mag-early procurement activities at bilisan. At nagpadagdag na po ako, Madam Chair, ng mga BAC teams, more bids and awards teams so that we can utilize the many funds that is allocated by the legislature to the Department of Health, Madam Chair.

SRH: Salamat, Secretary. At huli, yung delay sa disbursement dun sa line item nakasama yung responsible parenting, alam po ba kung bakit nasa 18.1% lamang?

Secretary Herbosa: If I'm not mistaken, there was a problem with the procurement for the birth control pills because of a certain component. But we were able to fix it legally, Madam Chair. So na-issue na rin yung disbursement noon, Madam Chair.

SRH: All right. Maraming salamat, Secretary. Daghang salamat, Mr. Chair.