Transcript of Sen. Escudero's questioning of former DA Usec. Joc Joc Bolante on the fertilizer fund scam hearing

Sen. Chiz: second administrative matter, Mr. Chairman if I may, earlier sen. Lacson and sen. Estrada were looking for a certain Aytona and (inaudible), bearing in mind that mr. bolante is still under the same oath, may I ask him if we can still facilitate the location of these two entities and or individuals, if he can point us the right direction wherein we can serve them with invitations or subpoena, if you are aware Mr. bolante? Aytona and (inaudible)

Bolante: your honor I don't know this Aytona, neither I know (inaudible) and I have nothing to do with them, absolutely.

Sen. Chiz: so you don't know where they are living or staying.

Bolnate: I dont know them and haven't met them.

Sen. Chiz: If I may proceed mr. chairman, mr. bolante nasa akin po yung transcript ng pagtestimonya nyo sa kamara de representantes at binanggit nyo ng pitong beses don yung section 66 ng General Appropriations Act ng 2003 bilang basehan ng inyong authority na irelease yung pondo, nasa sa akin po yung transcript at maski na si secretary Yap sinabing section 66 ng general appropriations act, I went through the GAA at kino-quote nyo po doon ay hindi section 66, bagaman ilang ulit nyo pong binanggit, 64 po yun at hindi 66, ibig sabihin po non mali yung 66 na sinabi nyo ng pitong beses doon sa House. Tama po ba yon?

Bolante: your honor tama po yon kasi I quoted the general provision of the 2007 GAA, I overlooked the GAA 2003 provided in section 64...

Sen. Chiz: So mali po?

Bolante: Partly wrong but the wordings of the provision of would be the same.

Sen. Chiz: So yon yung authority nyo magparelease ng pondo, may nakalagay po don sa huling bahagi ng sentence sa budget ng 2003 provided that a report of these releases and obligations shall be submitted to the senate committee on finance and the house committee on appropriations, kausap ko yung senate committee on finance at wala daw pon ganitong ulat na binigay. So kung ito man ang basehan nyo ng pagrelease ng pondo hindi nyo po kinumpleto yung comply sa pamamagita ng pagsubmit ng report sa senado, hindi kop o alam sa kamara. Do you have proof that you indeed submitted a report to the senate committee?

Bolante: Thank you your honor I have to check this with the DA central office but my impression is right now, your honor, is that it is a function of the DBM because it's the approving agency.

Sen. Chiz: Your impression mr. bolante is mistaken because there is no such report, no such complaint and whether it is the DBM or the agency concerned, the fact remains wala pong ganoong report na ginawa, kung baga ginamit nyo yung authority na magrelease pero hindi nyo naman sinunod yung nakalagay sa batas. My next question, mr. chairman, your honor, is sabi nyo ditto at sa House solely accounted for yung P728 million ng CoA, tama po ba yon?

Bolante: Opo your honor.

Sen. Chiz: sinabi nyo rin pos a amin at sa House 91%liquidated na, according to your recollection, tama po ba yon? Binanggit nyo rin po na 12% ang hindi tumanggap ng fertilizer fund or approximately 22 of the 182.

Bolante: more or less your honor.

Sen. Chiz: nacompute kop o at medyo marunong akong mag-add at magsubstract kung 91% liquidated subalit hindi nag-avail ang 12% tila hindi po tumutugma yung mga figure ng naliquidate at nong tumanggap dahil dapat kugn 12% ang hindi tumanggap 88% lamang ang liquidated at kung 91% ang liquidated hindi po rin tutugma na yung mga avail nang nag-avail umabot ng 22 o 12%, pakipaliwanag po yung pagkakaiba ng figure.

Bolante: your honor with due respect to your observation ang tama pong I supposed mathematical computation is that it should be based on the premise that and 9% po ay hindi pa po na-ireport, yung yung nakafloat pa po yaan, hindi pa po liquidated ng kinauukulang tumanggap ng funds, so it does not necessarily mean that yung 8% po ay hindi po nailabas. Sang-ayon po sa CoA report na napublish na sa website ng CoA lahat po up to the last centavo ng P728 million po ay fully accounted for.

Sen. Chiz: may I direct for the meantime my question to the CoA representative, pinagmamalaki po ni Usec. Bolante na fully accounted for daw po yung pondo, ibig sabihin po ba nyan malinis at tama ang pagkakagamit ng pondo, hindi bat ayon sa report ninyo na accounted for in the sense na alam nyo kung saan napunta pero hindi nangangahulugan na tama ang pagkakagastos, can you elaborate ma'm.

CoA Director Ferida Jimenez: tama po yong, your honor, na-aacoutn po naming yung P728 million pero hindi poi big sabihin ay tama yung pinagkagastusan ng P728 million.

Sen. Chiz: do you confirm ma'm that based on your CoA report there are some items that are overprice by 700 to 1,250%, that the foliar fertilizer was diluted in some respect, in fact up to 42%, that the farmer beneficiaries listed as supposed to be recipients of the fund, at least to the tune of 56% did not comply with certain circular as to being qualified to receive such a fund from the government.

CoA Director Ferida Jimenez: Tama po yun lahat, your honor.

Sen. Chiz: So accounted man, illegal, bawal at pede nating sabihing labag sa batas ang ginawang pagrerelease?

CoA Director Ferida Jimenez: May mga nakita kaming mga diperensiya your honor

Sen. Chiz: So pag sinabi ni USec Bolante na accounted for yun, hindi ibig sabihing malinis na at wala nang problema?

Hindi po tama yun, your honor.

Sen. Chiz: Can I proceed Mr. Chairman? I have a few more questions.

Sen. Gordon: Senator Escudero, your minutes are up. I'll call you again if you don't mind.

Sen. Chiz: Just one more point, if I may...

Sen. Gordon: Just wrap up...

Sen. Escudero: Sinabi din ni USec Bolante dati na wala kayong pakialam sa pag implement ng proyekto na ito dahil USec for Finance lamang kayo. Tama po ba yon?

Bolante: Yes, your honor, as a matter of check and balance, ang implementation po ng project ay hindi po dapat pakialaman ng Finance. 'Yan po ay sang ayon sa aming procedure sa DA. At siguro ganun din sa ibang ahensya.

Sen. Escudero: So wala po kayong pakialam pagdating sa pagpili ng fertilizer o shredder, wala kayong pakialam don? Sa pagsabi ng presyo kung magkano yan, wala kayong pakialam don?

Bolante: Hindi mo naman masasabing walang pakialam, your honor. Kung nakikita kong may diperensya, definitely kung andun pa po ako sa opisina ay posibleng i would have reported the matter to the Secretary. But ang implementation po your honor, as a matter of check and balance, ay under po sa responsibilidad ng operations po.

Sen. Escudero: So sila, yung mga regional field units?

Bolante: Sa field operations po.

Sen. Escudero: As my last point of the matter Mr. Chairman, may I ask one representative, perhaps from the RFUs, particularly Director Chu on the matter. You heard what USec Bolante said. Wala daw siyang pakialam sa implementation, wala siyang pakialam na pinipirmahan sa pagpili ng fertilizer, wala din siyang dinidikta sa presyo. Is that correct, your honor?

Director Choi: Hindi po tama yun, your honor.

Sen. Escudero: Do you have documentary proof to show that indeed USec Bolante is not telling the truth in that regard?

Director Choi: Yes, your honor, kasi meron tayong memorandum of order from the Department of Agriculture, authorizing all the regional directors up to 1 million. If it is over 1 million, finoforward na namin sa central office for their approval.

Sen. Escudero: So dapat DA central na ang nag-aapprove kung above 1 million?

Director Choi: Yes. For the purchase request of the item.

Sen. Escudero: Do you proof to show documentary... to show that indeed USec Bolante requested for such a purchase?

Mr. Chairman: With the permission of the other senators here, I will give Senator Escudero some leeway here because there are only three senators present right now, and with the Chairman, four. So we're giving you a bit more leeway so you can pursue your point.

Sen. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Escudero: I have received, Mr. Chairman, from Dr. Chu of a photocopied purchase request dated March 30, 2004 for 3 million pesos. Nakalagay Foliart Fertilizer, quantity 2,000, unit cost, 1,500. Ito po yung sinasabi ng COA na 1,250 overpriced dahil yung 1,500 per liter, hindi po naman ito ang tamang presyo nito. At nakapirma po dito Mr. Chairman, Jocelyn Bolante, Undersecretary by authority of the Secretary. Hindi po ito pagkakataon, USec Bolante, na sinasabi n'yong pag may nakita kayong anomalya, makikialam kayo. Yung purchase order po, yung order para bilhin ang kung anuman, kayo mismo ang pumirma eh. Saan ho galing yung sinasabi ninyo sa'min buong hapon, buong umaga nang nakaraan at sa Kongreso, na wala kayong pakialam pagdating sa pagpili kung fertilizer man yan o hindi, foliart ba yan o hindi, magkano nga ba yan at anong tamang presyo.

Bolante: Your honor, pwede po bang matingnan ang dokumento?

Sen. Escudero: While we're waiting for USec Bolante, Mr. Chairman, so as not to waste time, in general, unless the other RFUs disagree, may I ask one basic question? Is this a regular program of the DA? Itong farm implement, farm input, o ginawa lang ba ito for the first time to your recollection in this magnitude in 2004? If I may ask anyone at random?

Sen. Escudero: Director Choi, how long have you been with the DA?

Director Choi: I've been for... 11 to 12 years na since my retirement.

Sen. Escudero: But prior to your retirement, how long were you with the DA?

15 years.

Sen. Escudero: So total of about 26 years.

Director Choi: That was during Marcos's time.

Sen. Escudero: Regular program po ba ito ng DA?

Director Choi: It was not a regular program.

Sen. Escudero: In your experience, is this the first time that such a huge amount of 728 million was allocated for FIFI Farm Implement Farm Input?

Director Choi: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Escudero: Gano'n din po ba sa iba? Can you kindly tell me if indeed gano'n din sa iba o hindi? Director Tañada.

Dir. Tañada: Mr. Chairman, your honor, I can vouch for this statement. Considering the humongous amount involved, this is the first time ever that we have undertaken this kind of project in the region.

Sen. Escudero: Hindi nagawa bago nito? Hindi ginawa pagkatapos nito?

Dir. Tañada: Hindi na po. Not before, not after.

Sen. Escudero: Mayroon po bang program implementation man lang ito, study kung anong ibig sabihin ng FIFI na irerelease sa inyo?

Dir. Tañada: Based on my recollection, kasi nga po yung inorganize namin na sunog nung December 20. Itong programa na ito, walang corresponding na program design, not even guidelines, pero meron pa isang one-page document na kung saan nakasaad kung sino ang pwedeng mag implement ng program.

Sen. Escudero: Is this ordinary or extraordinary? Normal or abnormal?

Dir. Tañada: For me, it's extraordinary.

Sen. Escudero: And abnormal, if at all?

Dir. Tañada: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Escudero: Mr. Bolante?

Bolante: Thank you, your honor. Your honor, this document appears to be real and as you could see here, before I signed it, the other officers of the DA, accounting and finance, initialed the document before it was forwarded to me for signature. And this simply, as far as I could recall, your honor� this simply gave the authority to the regional director to do the processing because they have limit as mentioned by Director Chu, up to 1 million pesos.

Sen. Escudero: So may kinalaman nga po kayo�

Bolante: But as far as the procurement is concerned, as far as the choice of the supplier is concerned, as far as the canvassing of the price is concerned, hindi na po naming ginawa yun sa head office. Sila na po ang gumawa niyan sa regional office.

Sen. Chiz: Usec Bolante hindi pa yon ang tanong ko, ang tanong ko , nagmamalinis kayo nongnakaraan nang sinabi nyong wala na kayong pakialam dyan,sabi nyo pagbaba ng pondo sabi nyo sila na ang may problema dyan, pero lumalabas kayo ang nag-aaprove ng pagbili ng fertilizer, foliar to be specific, including the amount, whether it went through the process or not you approve it, you knew about it and you cannot deny that.

Bolante: Your honor nandito po lahat ng mga regional directors why don't we ask them if all of them submitted a purchase order to me for signature, it's the first time I saw it your honor that why to the test of my recollection hindi kop o ito natandaan na si director Chio ay nagforward po ng purchase order for my approval, nandito po sila, tanungin po natin sila.

Sen. Chiz: Usec Bolante magkano pa yung limit ng signature ng regional director? Usec for fianc� po kayo dapat alam nyo yan.

Bolante: ang pagkakaalam kop o each between one million to 3 million, hindi ko laman po matandaan yung exact provision po..

Sen. Chiz: One million po Usec Bolante and all of the amount you included in the attachment of the SARO all exceed one million that's why they all had to go back to you for authority to release for the PO and you have to sign all the documents and Mr. chairman may we ask the DA to produce all of those documents because I don't need to ask all the directors, I'm sure the DA has all the documents to show that they all needed to go back to him for him to sign all of these.

Bolante: Your honor thank you with your permission.

Sen. Gordon: Which specific document you are asking for?

Sen. Chiz: yung mga purchase order at request for authority because to order FIFI inputs dahil it exceeds the one-million ceiling for regional directors.

Gordon: In connection with the timeline of this program?

FGE: Yes Mr. Chairman. In connection with the 728

Sen. Gordon: This committee is ordered to secure those documents from the Department of Agriculture. Let's not wait for them to deliver it. Call them and pick it up.

Bolante: With the permission of the chair, thank you your honor. Your honor, as I have pointed out, the regional directors could attend to the fact. It is the normal practice in accordance with the procedures of the DA including the GMO, the General Memorandum Order that whenever deposes the limit, they will forward this document to head office for to be given the authority to proceed with the transaction. They can attest to this one so this is not an exception. This is just one of the many transactions that were forwarded to our office for us to give them the authority. Second,

Sen. Godon: Excuse me, kanino pinadala yung request for authority na yon? Kanino bumagsak? Sinong undersecretary?

Bolante: Sa akin po.

Sen. Gordon: So sa inyo bumagsak? So ikaw rin ang pumirma, inauthorize mo sila?

Bolante: Before that happens, it goes po to the accounting department then it goes to the assistant secretary for finance then it goes up to my office, it's clear and encoded, it goes up to my office for clearance and that's when I approve it that's why you can see here several initials Your Honor. The second point that I would like to reiterate your Honor, with your permission, the regional directors are here. I would like to take advantage of there. The opportunity of their presence, with the permission of the chair, let's ask them, how many of them did forward purchase orders for fertilizer for my approval. Now, Director Chu could you switch document? I'm sure they would be able to say now they also be the same for that bacuse the ____, this is true for all the transaction. It is not your honor. As a matter of fact, I hardly remembered it. It's an isolated case.

Sen. Chiz: Mr. Chairman, we already requested for the documents at minsan nang nagamit ni Usec. Bolante yung mga regional director. Ayoko hong payagam syang gamitin uli sila ngayon. At the last point Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bolante, you said that yung pagpili ninyo ng beneficiary was based on the accumulated requests of congressmen, governor, mayors, di ho ba? Sabi nyo nga saken nung tinatanong ko kayo, "sobra nga ho yung request kesa dun sa nabigay naming" Would that be correct? And in the House, you also said, and I quote, you repeated it four times, "it's based on the accumulated request of our office for assistance from the department?

Bolante: First of all your honor, I would like to clarify, it';s not beneficiaries with the President as budget proponent, (FGE: proponent) yah, budget proponents because the budget beneficiaries are the ultimate (FGE: Tama po yon, Tama po yon. It's based on accumulated requests of proponents) Right. We have put together the list whenever we receive request from the Congressmen of the local government units. Some would come from the regional directors.

Sen. Chiz: So, inipon nyo ho yon at sinabi nyo, may 728 tayo, mamili tayo kung sinong bibigyan. Walang politika, sabi nyo di po ba? Yung pangalawa ko pong tanong kaugnayan ho nun, nung sinabi nyong accumulated request ho lamang yan. Nasa akin ho yung sulat ng lahat ng congressmen at lahat po ng mayor at governor tungkol po dito sa fertilizer fund scam. Lahat po ng sulat nila, dated after February 3, matapos na pong ma-issue yung SARO, hindi po sila sumulat noon tungkol pos a release ng pondong ito. Sa katanuyan, sumulat kayo sa kanila at may kopya din po ako ng sulat ninyosa ilan sa kanila na nagsasabing meron kayong ganong pondo, pwede ba mag-request kayo? At nandito po lahat ng kanilang request. Ang iba ay inaprubahan ni Ass. Sec. o USec. _______. Ang iba po, kayo mismo so from point in time, nauna po yung SARO, sumunod ang NPA, February 3 pareho. Tapos, sumulat kayo sa mga congressmen, governors na gusto nyong bigyan, "magpadala nga kayo ng request, dahil may 3M, 5M kayo rito e." At nandito po lahat ng sulat nila, ang iba shredder, ang iba fertilizer, ang iba LGU ibibigay, ang iba sa cooperative ibbigay so nakabase po yun hindi sa accumulated request, sa request na dumating pagkatapos po ninyo makuha yung pondo because that is what the document states. Is that correct Mr. Bolante?

Bolante: Your honor, I will not question the letters you have in your possession but I hope that you would respect the fact that pther than those letters, there had been many letters that the DA received that they forwarded to my office. As a matter of fact, before I assumes letters, there was already a long list of pending request that have to be served. So it doesn't necessarily follow that if you have request of their review dated 2004, that there were no request received by us in 2003, or 2002 or 2001. I can tell you, Your honor that we receive many request from 2001 to 2003.

Sen. Chiz: Usec. Bolante hindi kop o pinagdududahan kung nakatanggap kayo ng request. Ang pinagdududahan ko po, yung request na pinagbatayan nyo po nitong 728, 1 is to 1 correspondent. P3M ang ni-request after February 3, nung makuha nyo yung SARO, eksaktong P3M din ang binigay. 5M, 5M, 1.2, 1.2, 1M, 1M. Ang pinupunto ko po, may request man kayo noon o wala, ang release ng 728, are all based on request which you instigated and which you received after the date of the SARO. As a final point Mr. Chairman, 9 years na kong congressman, Isa't kalahating taon na kong senador, sa karanasan ko sa division, DBM, wala pa kong nakitang SAROng may naka-attach na respondent, proponent and contrary to the opinion of USec. Bolante, na nilagay daw nya yung project proponent para hindi malako ng unscrupulous businessmen who want to earn from it. On the contrary Mr. Chairman, it may be the practice that kaya nilagay yung mga pangalan ng proponents dun, para makita't mapatunayang sila may-ari nung pondo at walang ibang pwedeng umangkin, at kung saka-sakali'y sila din ang pwedeng magdiktakaugnay nung pondong yun dahil ang nakalagay lang sa SARO, agency na mag-iimplement, amount, at saan chinarge. Hindi ho nakalista sa ordinaryong SARO yung listahan ng project proponents. I will end my questioning at this time, Mr. Chairman. I would like to avail of the round two so as not to take too much time of the other members of this committee.

Sen. Gordon: The chair has been very liberal, so that you can pursue your points. You want the other three minutes and that's alright.