Press Release
October 19, 2010

Transcript of interview of Senator Chiz Escudero

May refinements na sa VFA?

I don't know what he meant by refinements. In so far as I am personally concerned I would rather focus on criminal jurisdiction. And two things, criminal jurisdiction and number two, saan ka nakakita ng bisita na 365 days nandito. Hindi na bisita ang tawag doon. Either baguhin nila ang pangalan o sumunod sila sa definition ng bisita.

Pero hindi ba dapat it's either abrogation or..

Not necessarily. It could be renegotiation. Again, I am only concerned about those two things: criminal jurisdiction and the meaning of visiting.

Do you still have to go through Senate approval yung...even refinement?

Any changes would have to go through the Senate because it's a renegotiation of a treaty. From the point of view of the Senate this is a treaty. So we would have to file it.

Hindi ba non-negotiable ang US sa criminal jurisdiction?

That's their call. Karapatan nila iyon pero karapatan rin naman natin na ipaglaban iyon. I don't blame them for not wanting it.

Pero ilang taon nang ipinaglalaban sa Okinawa iyan.

Hindi naman ipinaglaban dito.

Sabi ni Miriam mas madali na i-terminate na lang.

That's their call but that will be the last option.

Ikaw, sir, anong position with regards to VFA?

Renegotiation of those two points.

Because it's still a value to the government, itong VFA?

Yes, there is a value into it. It's worth about 60 to 80 million dollars a year in military aid, in training, but it depends on what their position will be on those two points. Ang definition ng visiting nag-iiba-iba ng mundo ang sundalo sa atin. Hindi naman sundalo ang pumirma. Amerika ang pumirma. So if it is visiting, then they shouldn't be here 365 days a year.

This is still useful, VFA?

Again, we are getting 60 to 80 million dollars in military aid a year. May tulong but the question is at what cost? Well we should always balance and equate it based on that. At what cost? Ano ba ang cost sa atin? Once it happened napunta sa issue ang criminal jurisdiction pero after that at what cost?

Should Noynoy ____Deles?

Arrogance has no place in governance. If she cannotget along with co-workers in government, how could you expect her to get along with others. I think that should be the first lesson she should learn and adopt as a peace negotiator. Hindi niya nga makasundo ang mga kakampi niya dati sa gobyerno, paano niya kaya ma-wi-win-over ang mga hindi niya kakampi at rebelde at kalaban ng gobyerno? It should serve as a wake-up call to her that it helps and pays a lot if you exercise humility in your dealings not only with government but also especially with rebels.

Who is ideal to replace her? Hindi ba parang sayang naman dahil yun daw ang expertise niya?

Again, lesson learned ito sa akin ha. Sana matuto siya at hindi yung mas tumaas pa ang lipad niya dahil kinampihan siya ng Presidente. Sana magising siya she will be able to win the peace by acting and talking this way. If she talks this way to her counterparts from the rebel group side, you think she can actually achieve peace? I don't think so.

You should replace her.

We're not yet there. Again, as I said, sana matuto siya dito.

Pwede pa siyang i-reform.

I hope. But if she does not I don't think she will succeed and it will reflect on the President again. It's the President's choice. If he's using her as the pillar for peace initiatives in Mindanao , then it's doomed to fail if she keeps on talking and acting this way. Doon nga sa kakampi niya, lalo na sa kalaban niya. Papabasa ba niya sa MILF. "Basahin nyo nga ang libro ko." Hindi naman yata tama. And I don't think it will do well.

Hindi ba maganda na makatulong ang mga sundalong Kano sa mga naapektuhan ng bagyo?

Malaking tulong palagi ang binibigay nila sa atin pag nandito sila. That's one of the upsides of having them here. They have more equipment. They have more supplies and they are more prepared compared to us. But again, it's a cost-benefit analysis. What do we get out of this treaty? What do they get out of this, the GI political structure, of this region? We have to consider our role as well. Hindi lang yung tayo lang.

Kaya lang hindi natin sila mapupwersang tumulong ano?

Hindi. Pero in fairness, tumutulong naman sila on their own and whenever we ask for their help, they do help and on their own they also do help. To be fair to them.

Ikaw pala ang isa sa mga nag-push ng amnesty.

I signed the resolution.

By October 28 may promulgation sa kaso nina Trillanes. May mga implication ba yan?

Wala, tingin ko. Una, the judge can always decide to, in light of the developing situation, decide to reset it, one. And even if it does promulgate, I'm sure Senator Trillanes will appeal it. It's not a final and executory decision anyway.

So i-appeal muna?

No. even if there's a conviction, it will be appealed. It's not going to be final. So pag pumasok ang amnesty, the appeal will be rendered moot. Iyan lang naman yun.

Yung timing ng bagyo sa proclamation..considering na merong..

Irrelevant yan because again whatever conviction, if ever it will be a conviction, it will be appealed anyway. So it's not yet a final and executory decision. Hindi naman kwentong tapos pag nag-decision ang korte.

Considering na may proclamation na ng amnesty, hindi ba dapat wag na ituloy ng korte naman ang promulgation?

The court can take judicial notice of it. I think personally, it would be more prudent for the court to reset it, to see and find out if Congress would actually concur. The court cannot assume that. It can only take judicial notice of the fact that there is an amnesty proclamation but it cannot assume that Congress will concur with it. So the more prudent act would be to reset the promulgation and see if Congress will indeed concur in it. Pag hindi man okay lang din kasi decision naman ng judge iyon. Hindi naman final yan.

So pag nagkaroon ng concurrence ang Congress sa proclamation, anong dapat gawin ng korte?

Wala pa. ang kailangan munang gawin ng abugado ni Sen. Trillanes, dalhin ang amnesty proclamation concurred in by Congress before the courts or ask the court to take judicial notice of it and on that basis ask for his release and the dismissal of the case and his release. Congress cannot order the release of Sen. Trillanes, it's only the court. That's why all of these should be brought before the court.

So lawyer na ni Trillanes..

Lawyer na ni Trillanes or lawyer ng Senate can make representations also

Kung ire-recognize iyon ng korte, hindi na nila dapat ituloy ang promulgation?

Again, the court cannot assume that Congress will ratify it. The process is not complete until Congress concurs in it.

Kung nai-concur na ng Congress? Sabi nyo dapat i-delay muna ang promulgation.

It will be more prudent. But even if it does not, it's within the discretion of the court. Wala namang epekto. Wala rin akong nakitang problema sa mga nagsasabing iko-convict siya tapos may amnesty. Hindi pa naman final ang conviction. Any conviction or any acquittal which is not final is nothing. Until final ha.

Anong status niya as senator?

It won't change. He will be a senator and will be able to report for work. Yun ang pagkakaiba ng pardon. Ang pardon kailangan convicted muna siya by final judgement bago siya maging eligible for pardon. Ang problema, kasama sa conviction by final judgement ang absolute and perpetual disqualification to hold office, even if it's only for one second ang attach, hindi na siya senador. Kahit ma-pardon siya, hindi lang siya kulong, pero hindi na siya senador. Amnesty wipes out the crime. Senador pa rin siya. That's the big difference ha.

Kay erap di ba sa ..conviction..

Hindi, nag-withdraw siya ng appeal, remember nagpirmahan sila ni Ronnie Puno, winidraw nya yung appeal, automatic appeal yon eh kasi life yung sentence eh di ba, hi withdraw the appeal, kaliwaan sila, withdraw ko yung appeal, nandyan na si Puno, pinapadala na yung pardon, kaliwaan sila non, that's the basic difference. I heard the senate hearing on it, i disagree with some of the points raised by my colleagues on the availability of the amnesty for this purpose. This is clearly a political crime, yung na-commit nina sen. Triilanes is a political crime becuase it's only a crime and they are criminals because they lost. Kung nanalo sila eh di sila ang gobyerno ngayon. Ang kriminal yung mga tinanggal nila. Kung nanalo sila eh dii sila yung may rebulto ngayon, may tarpaulin ngayon, yung mga sinubukan nilang tanggalin ang nakakulong. Saan ka nakahanap ng krimen, krimen lang yon pagnatalo ka, bayani ka kung nanalo ka. That is by nature what a political crime is, this makes eligible for an amnesty. Tama ba yung sinabi ng deputy executive secretary na yung amnesty applicable din sa mga ordinary criminals?

Legally there's no limitation, but in practice there is. Kasi amnesty is all and encompassing eh, it applies to a class of individuals accused of a crime. Ngayon paano mo gagawin kung for common crimes lahat ng magnanakaw iaamnesty mo? Lahat ng rapist iaamnesty mo, lahat ng pumatay ng tao iaamnesty mo? Hindi pwede yon eh so in practice and by nature it is used only for political crimes, which are non-permanent and again they are only crimes and these are criminals only because they lost, because if they won they would have been the government right now.

Paano kung i-aacquit sila ng court?

Kung iaacquit lahat ng court, lahat ha, rendered moot and academic yung amnesty and i don't think Congress should even take it up.

Kaso isa lang yata sa mga kaso yung ipropromulgate?

Oakwood lang at ito ay applicable pati don sa court marshal kasi eh,so pwede pa ring i-take up for the other cases depending on how many cases there are pending against them and how many (inaudible). Mas maganda pa rin yung amnesty para sa akin. For them ha, for their point of point mas maganda pa rin palagi ang amnesty.

So sa tingin nyo mga next year pa rin peden gmakapasok gn senate si sen. Trillanes?

No i think when we resume it will be taken up, may committee report na sa senate. Hopefully within the year it will be concord and the DND is yet to come up with a procedure, yung mga mag-aapply for the amnesty, it will take a few weeks siguro, a few months. (before the year ends pwede ng maka-attend sa senate) I think, same procedure naman eh it's a matter of finding out if he is accused of a crime covered by amnesty, ganon lang naman kadali eh.

Kay Deles may mga panawagan sa Kamara na magresign na dahil sa arrogance

Gaya nag ng nasabi ko, arrogance has no place with respect to peacekeeping efforts of this government. I think this should serve as a good lesson for secretary Deles na kung yung mga kakampi niya hindi niya nakuha sa ganyang pag-uugali lalo na siguro yung mga rebelde. Kung yung mga kakampai niya hindi maganda ang dating na pinapabasa niya yung libro nya lalo na siguro sa mga rebelde. I think this should be a wake up call that arrogance will take her nowhere and perhaps humility can and will.

Pati yung ibang cabinet secretaries hindi pwedeng maging arogante

Wala naman siguro, nakalagay yon sa code of ethical responsibility and standards of public officials and employees, wala naman dapat talaga magmalaki ang sinuman. Hindi dahilan na matalino ka sa tingin mo magyayabang ka na kahit sino ang kaharap mo dahil wala namang nagmamay-ari ng lahat ng talino sa mundo.

Yan ba yung impression mo kay Deles, medyo arogante?

Well yan yung impression na nacreate nya sa mga miyembro ng Kamara, hindi ko naman siya nakakasalamuha eh. At kung ganoon ang reaksyon nila, kung isa ang nagsabi, kung dalawa ang nagsabi siguro baka mahirap pang paniwalaan pero kung ganoon karami yung kumatig, yung kumampi at naniwala marahil ay may basehan. Hindi dapat yon i-ignore, hindi dapat balewalain, at hanggang ngayon wala pa akong nakikitang statement na mula sa kanya, nagpakampi lang sa Pangulo, walang statement man lang na mula sa kanya na kung may hindi pagkakaintindihan, kung may pagkukulang ako pasensiya, hindi yon ang intensyon ko. Hanggang ngayon eh walang ganoon eh, hindi ko alam kung bakit. It's not a question of saying I'm sorry and apologizing, but at the very least if it was a misunderstanding, if that was not what she meant, she should say so, hindi yung tatakbo sa palda ng Presidente na magpapakampi at magtatago doon, at porket mataas ang kumpiyansa sa kanya ng Presidente iignore na niya lahat. No man or woman is an island who can achieve this humongous effort of achieving peace in Mindanao, certainly she cannot do it on her own.

On Pagcor's acquisition of 66 condo units worth P268 million

Hindi ko pa nakikita yung report ng CoA pero kung may ganoong nangyari talaga at ginawa marapat imbestigahan ng Ombudsman, hindi man ng Truth Commission depende kung sino ang may hawak o saklaw non.

Doon sa Truth Commission kahit na may petition pending before the Supreme Court pwede na yung mga preparatory activities

Talo sa miyembro ng truth commission dating mahistrado ng Korte Supreme, yung isa chief justice pa, I think they know what they are doing and they know better in so far as whether or not to proceed, that they decided to proceed perhaps they know something that we don't with respect to the pending case before the Supreme Court.

So yung preparatory na ginagawa nila okay lang yon?

Sa akin okay lang yon, ang nagiging problema ko lang ang balita ko ay may ilang prosecutors ng DOJ silang gagamitin na mag-aassist sa kanila, siguro dapat mas malayo yung distansiya ng prosecutors sa truth commission, may budget naman sila, kumuha sila ng sariling abogado to gather evidenec dahil baka may issue ng prejudgment ng kaso pag nagparticipate activle ang DOJ sa pagpresenta ng mga ebidensiya doon sa truth commission tapos later on sila ang maaatasan magsampa ng kaso at magdetermine ng probable cause. It might be unfair to those who will be charged.

Hindi pupunta ako don to discuss other matter, gusto ko kasing karerin (i-career) yung UN peacekeeping. Bangladesh is earning $300 million from UN peacekeeping efforts they are doing kasi bawat sundalo, bawat tao, bawat baril na pinapadala doon nirerentahan yon eh, if Bangladesh has such smaller contingent, smaller armies, small police force can actually get that much there is no reason why we can't kung karerin natin. Secondly binibigay sa atin ng Amerika $60 to $80 million, yon pinaghirapan, pinagpaguran nila at hindi pa nakatali ang kamay nila nagagawa nila, that is what we are trying to explore.

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