Press Release
January 21, 2013

Transcript of interview
Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano guests in ANC'S HEADSTART

PART 1: Issues affecting the Integrity of the Senate and the Independence of Each Senator

Karen Davila (KD): Senator Alan Peter Cayetano, good day to you.

Senator Alan Peter S. Cayetano (ASC): Magandang umaga Karen at sa lahat ng Pilipino sa buong mundo na nakikinig sa atin at nanonood.

KD: Were you able to see Sen. Miriam here on Headstart last week?

ASC: Not yet. But I'm hoping she's okay. She's had a series of health problems but I'm hoping that both her and Senate President Enrile are in good health and that we get to resolve this issue soon.

KD: After the additional MOOE last Christmas and the cash gift, news is that he has removed staff from you and Sen. Trillanes. And a memo came out in December where he says it is not a surprise, you were informed about it. What is that about?

ASC: First of all, I'd like to tell our people, sobrang nakakahiya. Nakikita ninyo may flooding diyan sa Davao, before that, in Region 11, peace and order problems, problem sa environment natin, sa US warship, tapos ang pinag-uusapan ng mga senador ay pera at Christmas gifts and cheques. But as minority leader, I have to bring up this issue because it affects the integrity of the Senate.

Kumbaga sa reporter, pwede ba naman 'yon na kapag hindi ka gusto ng management dahil may ni-report ka na hindi nila gusto, hindi ibibigay ang gasoline allowance mo? O kaya hindi ibibigay ang sweldo mo o tatanggalan ka ng staff?

For me, the issue is not the amount--P1 or P1 million. Of course, we have to know kung tama ang paggamit ng pera, but what happened is this, and I kept quiet about it. When I first became minority leader, ayaw kasi ni Senate President na may bumabangga sa kanya. And then he wanted to be elected unanimously. But I chose to become minority leader, Sen. Joker Arroyo nominated me.

We have two offices kapag minority leader ka. I never got to use the bigger office dahil tinanggal sa akin. I asked for the office back and asked why it was taken from me, when former Sen. Pimentel used it when he was minority leader, they just gave me flimsy excuses, and then they gave it to one group of staff.

I kept quiet dahil sa akin lang naman nangyari 'yan. And throughout the last three years, nararamdaman ko naman [na may konting panggigipit]. Pero hindi naman kasi personal. In fact, halos magmano ako sa kanya kapag nagkikita kami para ipakita na magkaiba lang ang stand namin sa issues--sa Impeachment, Sin Tax, RH. Pero pagdating ng Christmas, biglang hindi binigay ang extra na MOOE.

KD: Explain that. Ang tanong ng pangkaraniwang tao, bakit kayo nagrereklamo eh tumatanggap naman pala kayo ng MOOE? Ipaliwanag po ninyo iyon.

ASC: Ang MOOE kasi, lahat ng gastos ng opisina ng senador sa buong Pilipinas, dito nanggagaling. Lahat, pati bond paper. Kung makikita ninyo sa mga televised hearings, pati tubig at pagkain na ibinibigay doon, nanggagaling sa budget namin.

KD: Pambayad ng staff.

ASC: Well, hindi sa MOOE iyon, sa personal services iyon. But anything outside that, sa MOOE. Halimbawa, may staff ako na pinapunta ko ng Davao. Doon na kukunin iyon. Halimbawa, may pinapunta ako para kumausap ng witness, at 'yung witness kailangan din pakainin, doon nanggagaling lahat iyon. Pati 'yung communication bills. Usually, 'yung MOOE, kapag end of the year, usually November or first week of December, kapag may natira pa--usually December may mga nangyayari pa, in the past few years, may kalamidad, o kung may iba pang activities--doon namin kinukuha.

December 5 Memo authorizing release of additional MOOE to each senator

ASC: December 5, nagpalabas ng memo ang Senate President na ang nakalagay, "To each senator".

KD: Okay, I'll read it.

From the unutilized budget of the continuing appropriations for 2012 in the amount of 29 million, 900 thousand (pesos), you are hereby authorized to release as additional MOOE to the respective offices of the senators the sum of P1.3 million for each senator.

ASC: So sa lahat 'yan, whether or not you favour him, whether or not you make him happy. The reason why it was released in the first week of December is so that you can still use it sa buong December.

KD: But it says here CC all senators. So you got a copy.

ASC: Yes. But this was before we voted on the Sin Tax and the RH. So obviously, nagalit siya sa amin. Because they were trying to delay the fight for the two bills. That's another issue, but as I said, hindi dapat ganoon sa senado. Kaya nga sabi ko, 'yung independence ay apektado.

For me, tama naman si Sen. Ping na hindi mo naman masusuhulan o hindi mo naman mabibili, o hindi mo naman masu-sway ang senador with the funds.

Ako, nabantayan niyo naman sa kongreso, kinakasuhan kami ni GMA, tinanggal ang security namin, tinanggal ang pondo, even sa distrito, pero hindi ako nagbago ng prinsipyo. Kahit tanggalan nila ako ng lahat--opisina, staff, kahit sa ilalim kami ng puno--but the point is I have to defend my office. Kasi paano kung ang majority naman ang tanggalan dahil hindi nagustuhan ni Sen. Enrile ang ginawa nila?

He says he has discretion.

"SP should not have that kind of discretion in utilizing MOOE funds"

KD: 'Yon ang issue dito, discretion.

ASC: Ang may discretion siya ay 'yung extra funds. Kumbaga, kung happy ka sa isang empleyado mo, bibigyan mo ng bonus, discretion mo 'yan. Pero 'yung monthly na salary niya at 'yung 13th month pay niya, hindi mo discretion 'yan kasi lahat ng opisina, dapat pare-pareho.

But, like for me, it's not about the money. Kasi, nagsauli pa nga ako ng P100 thousand dahil sumobra ang MOOE ko. Ang masakit lang kasi, noong napansin na nung iba and Sen. Miriam brought it up, tinira pa kami. Unang-una, minority daw kami. Bakit si Joker Arroyo, minority din pero binigyan niya ng P1.3 million na MOOE?

KD: Wala naman staff 'yon eh.

ASC: Oo. Number two, sabi niya kami daw ni Sen. Trillanes, ang lalaki ng pondo sa committee. P6 million daw sa akin, and then P10 million kay Sen. Trillanes. But he didn't tell you that that's for the whole committee and not for me and Sen. Trillanes.

For example, doon sa committee ko, P100,000 ang MOOE ng chairman every month. Pero gastos ko 'yung mga pakain, 'yung meeting, 'yung pag-photocopy. Samantalang ang miyembro, may P50,000, hindi naman niya gastos iyon. For his own research 'yon, and his other expenses. Pero noong ni-research ko, ngayon ko lang nakita ito, 'yung sinasabi ni Sen. Enrile na tingnan ninyo ang mga gastos namin, ibabalik ko sa kanya. Ang pondo pala ng Senate sa MOOE is P1.148 billion.

KD: A year?

ASC: A year. That doesn't include the P428 million for committees.

KD: So roughly, the Senate is running at P1.5 billion.

ASC: Na-compute ko na 'yon. Sabihin mo na that P1 billion goes to the committee and the senators. This is the Official Gazette, by the way. This is the Senate budget under the GAA. Ang nasa ilalim ni Sen. Enrile is about P500 million na MOOE na siya lang ang nakakakita ng vouchers. That's what scared me.

If he is saying now na discretion niya 'yung dapat na sa bawat opisina ng ibang senador, discretion din ba niya 'yung P500 million na MOOE ng senado?

Ako, katulad ng iba nating mga kababayan, maliban sa nakakahiya itong issue na ito, gusto ko din na matapos na ito. Pero hindi ito matatapos na hanging issue siya o walang tunay na imbestigasyon. Una ang sinabi COA. But as I said, I have my own intelligence sources, very fair si Chairman Pulido-Tan and she's very strict.

KD: She said the Senate President did not do anything wrong.

"For more transparency, subject Senate to an independent audit"

ASC: What she said is that they can realign, but it's up to the auditor to check the liquidation. That's two different things. But my information is that it was Sen. Enrile who requested for that auditor. I'm not that sure but that's my information. That's why my suggestion is to tap private auditing firms.

Kasi kapag kapwa senador, kahit anong mangyari, baka sabihin, niluto namin. Tingnan mo, ilang imbestigasyon na dinaanan namin? Hindi ba, kay Chief Justice, ang sabi "Buksan natin ang account". We're talking about P100 million. Here. We're talking about P1.5 billion. Si Sen. Enrile mismo ang sabi niya bakit hindi buksan ang account na 'yan, so why don't we do the same here?

Pero private auditing firm ang kunin natin para nga matahimik na ang issue na ito, tahimik muna kami habang may nag-iimbestiga, kahit kampanya naman buhay pa rin naman ang senado, pero nakakahiya naman sa mamamayan na pera na nga ang pinag-uusapan, and then we'll sweep it under the rug pa.

Although I agree with Sen. Ping Lacson na huwag naming dungisan ang bawat opisina, at kung may gumawa ng masama ay i-limit lang doon. Agree naman ako kasy Sen. Miriam na let's open this up and look at it. Kami, halimbawa sa senado, ipinasa ang FOI. Pero ang sariling budget ng Senate, are we opening it up?

On one hand, nalulungkot ako na ginawa ni Sen. Enrile ito, pero baka iyon ang bigger picture, hindi ba?

How can we now investigate the others kung may cloud of doubt sa sarili namin?

"JPE did not sign the disbursement vouchers and cheques for additional MOOE to Minority Senators"

KD: So in the December 5 letter, the order to the Senate secretary was to release P1.3 million for each senator. Ang ginawa ng Senate secretary, gumawa ng voucher for every senator, including the minority.

This is the voucher of Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano (shows the voucher to the viewers), so it's safe to assume na pati sina Sen. Miriam ay mayroon.

ASC: Yes. Lahat kasi kami may chief-of-staff (COS) at may finance officer. Actually, hindi na namin nakikita ang mga cheque na 'yan. Pagka-pirma namin, pasok agad sa official account namin. And then, we just authorize the disbursing through our finance officer.

KD: So the Senate secretary did what was right and gave a voucher to everyone of P1.3 million.

ASC: And even prepared the cheque.

KD: Even prepared the cheque. Except if you look at the document, hindi pinirmahan pati ang cheque. So it's the act of not signing. Hindi pinirmahan ni Sen. Enrile ang disbursement voucher for the minority and the cheque. What does this act show you?

ASC: 'Yung staff, pati 'yung paglipat ng staff namin, wala naman silang magagawa because he's the administrative head. Kumbaga sa Chief Justice, he's first among equals, but he is the administrative head. Kaya kung sino man ang Senate President, siya ang administrative head. Pero first time in the history of the Senate na mamimili kung sino ang gusto niyang happy. Kaya nga niloloko ko siya na akala ko ba sabi niya "Gusto ko happy ka", 'yun pala, ang gusto niya happy siya. And if you don't make him happy, hindi ire-release ang pondo mo at tatanggalan ka ng staff.

'Yung isa kong staff, Muslim 'yon, eh. Alam mo naman that many of our Muslim brothers get discriminated against, but he got a break sa amin dahil magaling mag-imbestiga. He's with the Blue Ribbon Committee. Kaya ibinalik na ngayon sa Committee, tapos sinabihan pa na sa June, hindi na daw ire-renew ang kontrata niya.

Sabi ko naman standby lang siya dahil sa June, iba naman na ang senado.

KD: You mean may bago nang Senate President by that time?

On JPE's actions: "every time he does something terrible, it's about abuse of authority. For me, this is abusive"

ASC: We don't know. 'Yon nga ang tanong ko sa majority at sa iba naming kasama. Kami sa minority, handa kaming magtiis. Naranasan na namin 'yan kay GMA. Ginawa ni GMA 'yan dati noong kakampi pa niya si Sen. Enrile, but that never happened sa Senate. And sa Senate, kahit minority ka, may committee ka, may pondo ka. Because you respect each other.

What happened here kasi is that during the budget hearing last November and December, Sen. Enrile was lobbying na tanggalan ng pondo 'yung committee ni Sen. Trillanes. Pero hinarang nga 'yan ng mga committee, lalo ng finance committee because they said hindi naman si Sen. Trillanes lang ang mawawalan, kung hindi lahat ng member. And the fund is for the whole committee. So he was frustrated during that time. But then, nakahanap siya ng isang act, which is 'yung hindi niya pirmahan 'yung MOOE namin. What's next, hindi ba?

Although the Senate President has done great things in his life like EDSA II and this impeachment, he has also done terrible things like during Marcos' time, Cory's time, and now. And every time he does something terrible, it's about abuse of authority. For me, this is abusive. That's why my message to him is that hindi ko siya kalaban, and I don't care about the money anymore. In fact, nakakahiya na ganyan.

Ang question naman sa akin, dalawa na lang. Number one, ganyan ba ang gusto nating sistema sa Senate na kapag hindi ka sumunod sa Senate President, pwede kang tanggalan ng kung anu-ano? Number 2, how do we resolve it? Lumabas na 'yan eh. Nakakahiya masyado sa tao that we don't have honest to goodness investigation. Tingnan mo ang nangyayari. Naglalaban-laban na ang mga senador. So how do we pass the vital legislation kung kami-kami nag-aaway.

"Open secret that JPE met with Corona group during CJ Trial"

KD: I am curious. You just said that Senate President Enrile is abusive. Do you consider him a bully?

ASC: Many times nangyari yan. Tingnan mo sa impeachment, I would ask a question at pipigilan niya because he'll ask the same question. He will question our integrity but we'll find out later that sila ang nakikipag-meeting sa Corona group.

He's always in the right place at the right time. Tingnan mo nung EDSA...

KD: What do you mean? Sinong nakikipag-meeting sa Corona group? Can you explain that?

ASC: That's an open secret in the Senate. Yun ang sinsabi ni Sen. Trillanes na hindi lumalabas sa media. Sabi ni Sen. Miriam plunder, sabi ni Sen. Enrile naimbestigahan na ko noong panahon ni Cory.

KD: Ng plunder?

ASC: Yes. But I talked to one of the executive secretaries...

KD:Si Joker?

"JPE speaking half-truths to rewrite history"

ASC: I won't say who. But this person said hindi naman daw nagka-imbestigasyon. At yung nasa libro ni Enrile na tinawagan daw siya nung executive secretary at sinabi na "Cory said no case will be filed against you." Kulang daw yun. Ang sinabi ni President Cory, "Because you helped us, no case will be filed against you." Yung sa libro niya ay half-truth.

I'm saying that in the context of his explanation that our staff were already removed as early as December. What he didn't say is that in the past 6 years, the renewal was automatic. At sinabihan kami January na.

Sinasabi rin niya na discretion niya to. Which ang totoo hindi niya discretion to at first time nangyari yung ganito.

KD: Meaning hindi niya discretion kung sino ang bibigyan o hindi?

ASC: Yes. Iba yung sinasabi niya sa media na half-truth, iba yung totoong nangyayari. That's why for me, he brought this upon himself kung ngayon it's being scrutinized kung sino si Juan Ponce Enrile.

As I said before, he has done great things for our country like nung EDSA 1. Pero tama rin naman si Sen. Miriam na yung binibintang na coup de etat noong panahon ni Cory and he was fired as the Defense Minister because they thought he was too abusive. Nung kay Marcos noon na they were thinking of getting rid of him that's why inunahan niya.

These are issues that were brought up before pero wala namang umiimik sa amin. Between him and the media, he's practically rewriting history with his book but he didn't hear anything from us.

KD: Do you believe that he rewrote history with his book? That it wasn't entirely accurate? That he strived to change parts of it?

ASC: The problem kasi is for example, the fake ambush, I was there when Sen. Nene Pimentel said in his face, "You claimed to have a fake ambush." Because Enrile called Sen. Pimentel a coward. So Sen. Pimentel said, "Who's a coward? The one who faked his own ambush, admitted it then later denied it?" He didn't answer. They were asked to cool down.

Sila kasi ang magka-age kaya bihira sumasagot sa kanila because they're much senior and we don't want a fight. Katulad nun, it was all over the media. Kung pwede ko lang halungkatin sa ABS-CBN, he said that during the EDSA revolution.

KD: The Inquirer quoted it.

ASC: But in his book he denied it. Then kinuwento sa akin yung executive secretary na he quoted in his book na ang pinapalabas niya doon, malinis kaya walang maibestiga. But that's not what I was told happened. But that must be his view.

KD: Let's not go back to Senate President Enrile's history.

ASC: Yes, let's not mix the issues.

On 250k Cash Gift: "when you have savings from your office, you have to return it"

KD: Is giving a cash gift of P250,000 per senator from the savings of your office legal?

ASC: Although I didn't agree about yung batuhan nung past, that's why I brought it up. Yung context ni Enrile kapag nag-explain kailangan mong himaying mabuti.

So okay, sinabi niya na P250,000 was not a cash gift but part of the MOOE or from his savings daw.

KD: Savings from his office?

ASC: Yes. But when you have savings from your office, you have to return it. You can't give it away. So kung may savings ako, hindi ko pwedeng ibigay yun sa congressman, konsehal o kahit sino pa.

KD: Yun na nga eh.

ASC: That's why I followed what Sen. Pimentel did. Pina-embargo ko yung P250,000 because tinaggap nung staff namin at dineposit sa official, not personal, account kasi official Senate check. But nung pinahanap ko na yung dokumento, wala.

KD: Walang dokumento yung P250,000?

ASC: Yes, unlike nung iba. That's why the irony is mainit yung tao sa P1.3 million pero mukhang yun yung official at may dahilan. Question nalang is that if it's excessive for one month.

But legally naman, yung questionable is P250,000. As of the moment, I haven't seen, there could have been changes already and that it is now available, an explanation that it's from his savings. Because if it is, he should have realigned it and have a voucher made giving it to all offices. Hindi pwedeng sabihin na galing lang sa savings yun.

But the Senate President said hindi lang naman yan yung savings, mayroon pang iba. That's where the P500 million comes in. Nung sinabi kong may P500 million pa ang tanong ko is, "Do the same rules apply?" Does he also just certify and can he move it around? Because I've never heard of that.

Mabuti na rin na ma-bring up tong issue na to kasi minsan nakatingin ka sa ibang bakuran, yung sa sarili mong bakuran di mo nakikita. So I think we should resolve this.

KD: I've wanted to ask you, some of my friends who are Senate staff say they are happy with Senate President Enrile because he is very generous. Ang lakas daw magbigay tuwing pasko. How does that happen?

ASC: To be fair to Sen. Enrile, all senate presidents ay ganoon. Depende kung gaano kalaki ang pondo. Kunyari ako, kapag kumuha ako ng staff, I don't compute based on the monthly, but I compute on their yearly pay.

It's really the dignity of work. Like in the Congress, they expect you to pass all the laws of the country but the pay is so small. Here in the Senate, may allowances but they're worth it. Wag ka lang mag-15-30 or magwaldas sa kamag-anak but sa technical stuff it's worth it.

In fact I go around saying, "yan ang anti-graft." Dapat sa ibang ahensiya, ganoon din. But all Senate presidents are loved. May union ang staff kaya siyempre palaging napaparating yung ganoong concern sa mga Senate presidents.

Minsan kasi nakuwestiyon ng COA yan - yung employees and not the Senators. But na-justify naman yan under COA's own rules under the regulations of the government. Mahal pero lahat naman ng staff tinuruan namin.

Nung nagaway kami ni Sen. Miriam on an issue, we tell them to stay out of it. Still love the Senator, still love their staff kasi kami naman yun. That's why nagulat ako kung bakit naging personalan yung ginawa ni Sen. Enrile na pang-aapi.

"JPE's use of discretion in disbursing funds is a bad precedent"

KD: So before we go to the Comelec issue, can you summarize your thoughts on this na "pinersonal at inapi kayo". Yun ang issue ninyo eh. And how much discretion does a Senate President really have?

ASC: Because if you bring it to the extreme, he can give us zero funds now.

KD: Huwag naman ganoon.

ASC: Kaya nga. Kaya ngayon P1.3 million ang tinanggal, tomorrow P1.5 million, the next two baka kung magkano na. It's just the media who does the check and balance. Walang kumikibo eh. That's why I don't expect the members of the Majority to go to the media. But are they meeting him quietly to say that it's wrong or bago ito lumabas. Kasi ito pala ay umikot na sa Senate.

Kasi nga that's what happened to me during GMA's time. Remember si Speaker de Venecia, yung siya naman ang natanggal dahil yung anak niya ay nag-witness sa NBN-ZTE scam, siya naman yung umangal. Kaya nga sinabi namin na, "Kita mo speaker, kung ano yung tinanim mo, yun din ang aanihin mo."

So gusto ba ni Sen. Enrile kung kunwari matanggal siya at galit sa kanya yung bagong Senate President wag siyang bigyan ng pondo? In a democracy, baliktad. Aalagaan mo yung tumutuligsa sa iyo. Because that's the democratic process. I mean, how many reporters have been mean to me? But inuuna ko pa sila because that's democracy: not everyone will agree with you.

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