Press Release
September 5, 2017

Transcript of Sen. Bam Aquino's questions during Kian Delos Santos' hearing

Sen. Bam: Bago po ako pumunta sa mga tanong kina PO1 Cruz, Pereda at PO3 Oares, gusto ko lang tanungin si Secretary Aguirre. Secretary, ano na po yung status ng kaso laban sa tatlo nating kasama ngayong umagang ito?

Sec. Aguirre: Last... Mr. Chair, good morning, Senator Bam. Nung biyernes po, nag-file po yung NBI against the four- the three plus the.. yung hepe nila, and I just read in the papers that the one- Reynato Luveras E. Peres, alias nono, was also impuded in the case of murder, violation of domecile, and violation of Section 29 of Republic Act 9165, otherwise known as the comprehensive Dangerous Drugs act, 2002. So, nakafile po iyan, and if I remember right, the next- the preliminary investigation is set on 14 and 21. But this, the case, filed initially by the Public Attorneys' Office. So in all probability, this will be consolidated and so the hearing of this NBI complaint in all probability be also held on September 14 and 21.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Secretary, so if you can run us through the process, magkakaroon ng preliminary investigation, this is with the fiscal's office of Caloocan?

Sec. Aguirre: Hindi na po. Trinansfer na po yan dito sa main DOJ.

Sen. Bam: Okay. So magkakaroon po ng preliminary investigation, in DOJ on September 14...

Sec. Aguirre: Opo.

Sen. Bam: Pagkatapos nun, it will be submitted to the court?

Sec. Aguirre: Pagkatapos po nun, the Prosecutor General has formed a panel of 3 to investigate these complaints. And after this, the resolution of this case by the Prosecutor General to file or not to file, if any of the bodies would want to appeal via Petition for Review, it will be filed before our office, the Office of the Secretary.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, pagkatapos po niyan, it will be submitted to the courts, correct?

Sec. Aguirre: Opo. Pag iyang- the resolution is to file the case.

Sen. Bam: Alright. And this court will be- where will the court be, Secretary?

Sec. Aguirre: It will be in Caloocan, where the crime was committed.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, pagkatapos nun, if the court decides that there is a case to be furthered, they will probably issue a warrant of arrest. Is that correct?

Sec. Aguirre: Opo.

Sen. Bam: Yung timeline po niyan, Secretary, could be as fast and as long as how many months or how many weeks?

Sec. Aguirre: I think this is only- it's not a complicated case. So, I believe that if the prosecution will be able to finish their presentation of evidence in the preliminary investigation on the 21st, then it will be the turn of the accused to submit their counter affidavits, and if necessary, the prosecution will be given a chance to file their reply affidavit, and the respondents there rejoin their affidavit. So I believe in three months time, it could be finished in the preliminary investigation, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, so mga tatlong buwan po bago magkaroon- possibly, if the court's who decides a warrant of arrest for some or all of these gentlemen?

Sec. Aguirre: Opo. I believe na baka hindi pa umabot ng tatlong buwan, kung mabilis ang proceedings. Kung walang delay.

Sen. Bam: Alright, okay. Let me ask si Mang Zaldy. Si Mang Zaldy, ang sabi natin nung unang hearing, ang hinahanap natin, katarungan para kay Kian. Kung masampahan na nga po ng kaso ang mga allegedly na pumatay kay Kian, yun na ba ang katarungang hinahanap niyo?

Zaldy Delos Santos: Opo.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Thank you, Mang Zaldy. Tanungin ko rin po si Mang Percida. Kayo po yung unang nag-file ng kaso laban dun sa apat. Hindi tatlo, apat ho ang kinasuhan ninyo.

A: *inaudible* Chair, there are John Does. Because we do not know yet the names of other members of the team. For IAS, there are several PNP officers who are involved. So, we will just ask the prosecutors who will be investigating this case to subpoena to the IAS to submit all the documents, public documents in connection to this case, so that the John Does can be filled up.

Sen. Bam: Pero yung kaso pong binanggit po ni Secretary Aguirre na sa September 14 yung preliminary investigation, yun po yung kasong sinampa ninyo?

A: Opo. And then we will move for the consolidation of the case filed by the NBI, because they included another charge- the charge of planting of evidence under the *inaudible* law. And also under the Dangerous Drugs Act of 2002.

Sen. Bam: General Dela Rosa, sa tatlong buwan na hinihintay yung resolution nung kaso, ano po yung status ng ating mga PO1 dito?

PNP Chief Dela Rosa: They will still be under restrictive custody, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Ok, ano po ang ibig sabihin ng restrictive custody para sa mga nakikinig ngayon?

Chief Dela Rosa: Restrictive custody, Your Honor, meaning they will be confined, restricted inside the camp wherein they are placed under restrictive custody, and they can only go out once they ask permission from the supervising officer, and they have to be escorted, Your Honor. But we cannot put them in detention, your Honor, because that's a violation of law.

Sen. Bam: Meron na po bang administrative case na nakasampa na po sa kanila aside from the criminal case?

Chief Dela Rosa: Yes, Your Honor. These are being handled by the IAS, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: At kailan po yung resolution nung kasong iyon? Maybe IAS can be the one to respond?

Chief Dela Rosa: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Yes, Atty. Triambulo?

Atty. Triambulo: Good morning, Your Honor. The received charges was filed on August 25 against the 17 respondents. Now, under the rules issued by the NAPOLCOM, only 16 will be subjected to the summary hearing because, one, the Chief of Police of Caloocan City, with the rank of Senior Superintendent, and under the NAPOLCOM Circular Section 6 *inaudible*, pag ikaw ay Presidential Appointee, kailangan hihingi muna ng clearance bago i-subject ng summary hearing. So, siguro Your Honor, ang proceedings na nakalagay sa roles, nagpapadala na kami ng summons requiring them to answer and submit their controverting evidence within the period of seven days, and after seven days we will seek the pre-hearing conference, yung marking ng evidence ng 10 days from receipt, then the summary - after the pre-hearing conference, another 15 days to submit the position paper, because we-inalis na po namin yung trial type, so position paper, then 30 days ang IAS to resolve the-

Sen. Bam: So, 30 days from now. Or 30 days from August 25?

Atty. Triambulo: 30 days from after the submission of the position paper.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So 30 days after the submission of the position paper, so possible in 2 months? So in 2 months, meron na kayong decision kung ano yung penalty ng ating mga - ng involved sa kaso ni Kian, anywhere from suspension to outright dismissal from the service, yun yung mga posibleng i-hatol ninyo kung mahatulan niyo nga silang guilty? At the same time, Secretary Aguirre, within three months, in you opinion, probably the case will have moved further, Secretary Aguirre? The case would have moved further in about three months, and probably before the end of the year, meron nang desisyon yung korte kung dapat ba silang i-warrant of arrest or hindi. Tama po?

Atty. Triambulo: Tama po.

Sen. Bam: Yung charges po ng PAO was murder. Is that correct?

Chair Acosta: Yes, Your Honor, and also violation of the Anti-Torture Act of 2009, because the torture leads to the death of a minor.

Sen. Bam: At pareho po iyang non-bailable, if I'm not mistaken, Chair Acosta?

Chair Acosta: Opo. Pareho pong non-bailable ang murder tsaka yung violation ng Torture Act.

Sen. Bam: Ok, tatanungin ko po si - Yes, Sir. Vice Chair Casurao.

Sen. Lacson: Before you respond, Vice Chair, with the permission of Senator Bam, may itatanong lang ako. Without prejudging itong kaso...

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Sen. Bam: Gen. Dela Rosa, ito pong kay Kian, isa po iyan. Ito pong kay Karl Arnaiz, isa po iyan. Si Espinosa, isa po iyan. Naalala niyo po, noong first time tayong nagkita, may mga pulis na namaril sa loob ng presinto na kinasuhan ng murder. So isa pa po iyan.

Our friends from media have been collating all of these stories already ng mga may handcuff, nakagapos, binabaril. Iba pa po kung talagang guilty sila o hindi pagdating po sa drugs. Iyong kay Karl nasabi ng spot report mayroon siyang altercation with the taxi driver. Iba pa po iyan. Ang pinag-uusapan natin ay iyong mga pinapatay na hindi nanlalaban. Do you think general, at this point, mayroon na pong pattern tayong nakikita. Ito pong dalawang kaso ni Kian at Karl, dalawa na ho iyan. Nabanggit po ni chairperson si Espinosa, naalala ko iyong nakuwento niyo, nakasuhan ng murder ang dalawang pulis na iyon. Mukhang marami pa po. There are other cases, lumalabas na po sila. This committee has becoming a venue para po mapag-usapan ang iba't ibang napatay na mukhang hindi naman nanlaban. Mayroon po bang pattern dito?

Gen. Bato: Your honor, if you say about pattern. Siguro depende iyan sa intensity ng operations. Iyong NBI, ilan bang anti-drug operations na kinonduct nila, Kumpara sa amin, we are 175,000 strong na lahat naka-focus sa drug operations. Iyong PDEA, 2,000 and yet mayroon silang napatay sa drug operations na 28, your honor. Iyong pulis, 175,000 strong, lahat iyan dedicated, nakatutok sa drug war, your honor. What do you expect, mayroon talagang mamamatay. Your honor, hindi niyo kino-consider iyong aking mga tao na namatay sa operations. I have 75 personnel na namatay sa war on drugs. Unfair naman kung sabihin natin na porke maraming namatay sa aming operations, gagawan natin na pattern na ang intention ng pulis ay patayin. Please consider na 120,000 suspects arrested alive. They're not killed. That's unfair na gawan natin ng pattern na talagang may intensiyon ang pulis na patayin.

Sen. Bam: General, may dalawang kaso na tayo rito na mayroong mga pulis na pumapatay na hindi po nanlalaban. Meron ho?

Gen. Bato: your honor, as I have said...

Sen. Bam: Meron ho? Yes or no?

Gen. Bato: Meron ho your honor, pero hindi namin kinokoberan, kaya nga nandito sila for investigation. Please help us solve the problem.

Sen. Bam: We are helping you solve the problem. Kasama ho ba sa problema iyong mga pinapatay na hindi nanlalaban. Kasama ho ba iyon sa problema?

Gen. Bato: Kung ma-prove your honor, that's a problem really.

Sen. Bam: Yes. In fact, noong nagkita si President Duterte at magulang ni Kian. Sabi nga niya, kung may summary killing, mali po iyon. Siya na mismo ang nagsabi. Tama po?

Gen. Bato: Mali talaga, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Were you there in that meeting general? Nandoon ba kayo noong nagkita si President Duterte at magulang ni Kian.

Gen. Bato: Wala po your honor.

Sen. Bam: I think si Sec. Aguirre was there, secretary?

Sec. Aguirre: Opo.

Sen. Bam: Tama ho na sinabi ni President Duterte na kapag may summary killing, mali po iyon at dapat ikulong. That's correct, right?

Sec. Aguirre: Sabi po ng ating Pangulo na kailanman ay hindi niya pinag-uutos na pumatay na walang laban, sabi niya because that's illegal killing.

Sen. Bam: That's an illegal killing. Kasama po sa illegal killing iyong puwede namang arestuhin pero pinipili pong patayin. That's an illegal killing.

Sec. Aguirre: Sinabi niya hindi dapat mang-aresto ang mga pulis kapag nakaluhod o walang kalaban-laban sapagkat hindi ko pinag-uutos iyan.

Sen. Bam: Salamat Sec. Aguirre. So Gen. Dela Rosa, so from the beginning, ang buong Senado po, suportado naman po iyong laban sa droga. Ang kinukuwestiyon namin is iyong ilan pong kasama sa PNP, na mayroon talaga kayong mga kasama, kung saan pinapatay po ang mga kababayan natin na dapat hindi naman pinapatay. Puwede naman pong hulihin. Iyong mga pulis na nanghuli sa 120,000 na suspect, of course gusto natin iyan. Gusto nating maaresto ang mga tao na dapat maaresto. Pero kung may mga kababayan tayo na dapat hindi pinapatay, you'll agree with everyone here, including Sec. Aguirre, including the President, na kung mayroon pong operations na pinapatay iyong hindi pinapatay, mali po iyon at dapat matigil po iyon. Totoo naman po?

Gen. Bato: Totoo, your honor. Mali talaga iyan.

Sen. Bam: May lumalabas na cases, ito pong kay Kian, kay Karl. PAO is under DOJ, Sec. Aguirre, is that correct?

Sec. Aguirre: Actually, ang PAO is an attached agency to the DOJ. Independent po sila. Naka-attach lang po sa amin for purposes of budget.

Sen. Bam: So you don't have supervision over them?

Sec. Aguirre: Wala po.

Sen. Bam: Chief Acosta, ito pong mga na-i-investigate ninyo. Itong kay Kian, iyong kay Karl. Nakikita niyo na these are cases na nababaril ang suspects na dapat po naaresto na lang.

Acosta: Opo. Pero puwede sagutin ko muna iyong kay chairman para ma-correlate ko diyan. Ang tanong ng ating mahal na chairman dito ay ano iyong dapat gawin para makaiwas sa ganitong sitwasyon. Ang akin po dito, willing kami sa PAO na mag-retraining o mag-seminar tie-up sa PNP. How to investigate crime, how to effect arrest and follow operational guidelines ng PNP. Puro involved po PO1 dito kay Kian at Karl.

Sen. Bam: On that note, Chief Acosta, nababahala ako na PO1 ang karamihan dito. Puwede kong tanungin ang mga PO1 natin dito. Kailan ho kayo naging pulis? PO1 Jerwin Cruz, anong taon kayo naging pulis?

Cruz: 2014.

Sen. Bam: Tatlong taon kang pulis. Kayo po PO1 Pereda?

Pereda: 2014 din sir.

Sen. Bam: Kayo po PO1 Perez?

Perez: Your honor, 2012.

Sen. Bam: So limang taon ka nang pulis. Kayo po PO1 Arquillita?

Arquillita: 2013 your honor.

Sen. Bam: Para kay PO1 Cruz at PO1 Pereda. Nakakailangang operations na kayo na nagresulta na namatay. I don't think that's in the record already. Puwede ko namang tanungin iyan sa PNP. Hindi naman po iyan sikreto. Pero gusto ko lang kayong tanungin, nakakailangang operations na kayo na nagresulta na may namatay na suspect.

Sen. Ito ang kauna-unahan? PO1 Pereda, ito rin ba ang kauna-unahang beses na may namatay sa operation mo?

Pereda: Wala pa po akong naaano sa record namin sir. Pero sa mga nasamahan ko, wala po talaga.

Sen. Bam: So this is the first time na may namatay? So apat na taon ka nang pulis, wala ka pang na-experience na napatay. Iyon ang first time.

Pereda: Yes sir.

Sen. Bam: So anong pakiramdam mo na may napatay kayo at 17 years old pa ang napatay niyo, PO1 Pereda. You can invoke your right but I don't think this is self incriminating. Tinatanong ko lang ang pakiramdam niyo pagkatapos ng gabing iyon.

Pereda: Sir sa tanong na nakapatay. Hindi po kami iyong nakapatay sir. Nakabariln po, hindi rin po kami.

Sen. Bam: Are you referring kay Kian o sa ibang operation?

Pereda: The same rin sir. Kahit kay Kian sir.

Sen. Bam: Are you saying right now na hindi kayo nakipagbarilan kay Kian. Iyon ang nasa spot report niyo.

Pereda: Yes sir, hindi po kami.

Sen. Bam: Hindi kayo. Meaning hindi kayong tatlo o hindi kayong dalawa ni Jerwin.

Pereda: Hindi kaming dalawa ni Jerwin sir na nakipagbarilan kay Kian.

Sen. Bam: Pero nandon kayo nung nabaril si Kian? You may invoke your right...

Pereda: I invoke my right against self incrimination.

Sen. Bam: Pero nasabi mo na rin na hindi kayo ni Jerwin ang nakipagbarilan kay Kian. General, as a final question. Puro PO1 po. Itong dalawa si PO1 Cruz at si PO1 Pereda. Tatlong taon, apat na taon na silang pulis. Never silang nakipagbarilan, may napatay. First time poi tong kay Kian. Ngayon kitang-kita natin from all the evidence, forensic, testimony ni MC, isa itong operation na dapat hindi namatay ang bata. Here we have, mga batang-batang pulis na involved dito, most likely, madadamay sila sa kaso. How old are you, Jerwin and Jeremias? May trenta na ba kayo?

Jeremias: 27 ako sir.

Jerwin: 36 po.

Sen. Bam: Ano ang masasabi niyo General? Do you agree with Chief Acosta na kailangan ng massive retraining ang ating mga batang pulis?

Gen. Bato: Your honor, in relation to your question. May I go back to the question of our chair kung ano ang long-term na hinihingi niyang solusyon. Mr. chairman, can I request the two gentlemen to stand up. I'd like to manifest na hindi ko sila pinapahiya dahil mahal ko sila, mga tauhan ko sila. Gusto ko lang i-express ang aking frustration sa sistema namin your honor. You're looking for a long-term solution. Matagal na naming nila-lobby sa Congress na ang training ng PNP maibalik sa amin. Kami lang ang police agency na hindi nagti-train sa aming tao. Hindi ko sila iniinsulto pero they are victim of a system wherein training may pagkukulang. Look at them, produkto lang kayo ng training. Their stomach, PO1 sila kaga-graduate lang pero ang lalaki na your honor. Hindi mo ma-impose ang standard ng discipline na gusto ng PNP dahil hindi namin hawak ang training.

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Sen. Bam: Meron pa bang gustong ikwento o sabihin? Sa mic, please.

Wala po, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Matanong ko nga kung bakit ka naging emotional kanina? Wala naman? Alright. Chief Dela Rosa, you've been very clear dito sa mga hearings natin. Paulit-ulit niyo pong sinasabi, walang utos, walang polisiya, walang ganuting klaseng mga orders, pero pabalik-balik tayo dito, at nakikita natin na nangyayari ito. Pwede ba, finally, declaratively, sabihin na natin sa buong 175,000 na kapulisan natin na hindi tama itong mga nakikita nating pagpatay sa mga hindi nanlalaban, can you be very clear? Kasi yung audience niyo hindi lang yung taong bayan, pero pati na rin yung tauhan niyo. Be very clear with them, na kahit kayo, hahabulin niyo sila, mawawala sila sa trabaho, makukulong sila, machacharge sila, kailangan malinaw tayo, especially dun sa mga PO1, kasi parang ngayon, puro mga bata pa yung mga nagkakasala ng ganito. Sige po.

PNP Chief Dela Rosa: Your Honor, I don't need to go public na maghiyaw-hiyaw ako sa mga tao ko, Your Honor. I've been- we've been talking about this in the PNP Command Conference. I've been telling my subordinate commanders and directors, please, do your job properly, and please observe the rule of law. In fact, they, too *inaudible*, Your Honor. I have sent already memorandums, memoranda- to the Regional Directors, that- please observe the rule of law. Hindi tayo puwedeng mag-violate ng Human Rights, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, salamat ho, General.

Chief Dela Rosa: Hindi po nagkukulang diyan, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Tanungin ko po si Police Chief Superintendent Fajardo. Kayo po yung head ng Caloocan. Tama mo?

Superintendent Fajardo: Yes, sir.

Sen. Bam: At ito po, nangyari sa Caloocan, parehong beses nangyari sa Caloocan. Kung malinaw naman yung sinasabi ni General Dela Rosa, I'm sure umabot yun kay NCRPO Albayalde, at kayo po, nasa ilalim kayo ni General Albayalde, nangyayari pa rin po ito.

Superintendent Fajardo: Sir, actually, kami yung ayaw na ayaw na maguolo yung lugar, kami yung ayaw na may patayan. Situation lang po yun pag lumalaban. Ayaw po namin pumatay, ayaw po namin ng magulo. Pero kasi kami po yung nasa frontline, kami po yung nasa harapan eh.

Sen. Bam: Pero dalawang kaso ito na malinaw na hindi nanlaban. Yung kay Kian, klarong klaro po, hindi siya nanglaban, ngayon, nasabi ng PAO at nasabi ng Medikolegal ng PNP, na mukhang nakahiga rin po si Carl nung siya'y binaril. So these are two cases na klaro pong hindi nanlaban.

Superintendent Fajardo: Okay, the court will decide on that sir, sasagutin po ng mga pulis natin-

Sen. Bam: So right now, ang sinasabi niyo, si Kian at tsaka si Karl nanlaban pa rin sila?

Superintendent Fajardo: The court, sir, will decide po. Naka-file na po.

Sen. Bam: Hindi. Sa inyo pong report?

Superintendent Fajardo: Based on the report, they are lumaban.

Sen. Bam: Pero based on our forensic evidence, based on the physical evidence, based on the visual evidence nung kay Kian, hindi naman sila nanlaban?

Superintendent Fajardo: The court will be the one to determine.

Sen. Bam: Ah, so para sa inyo, nanlaban pa rin si Kian at tsaka si Carl?

Sen. Lacson: May I just interject, very quickly. In other words, you're not covering up for them.

Superintendent Fajardo: Wala, sir. Actually, kung cinover namin, hindi sana pupunta yung mga pulis, tapos pwede namin actually kunin yung CCTV doon kung gusto namin, pinabayaan namin, kasi gusto namin lumabas yung totoo, transparent, at the same time, ayaw talaga namin ng magulo. We are trying to maintain the peace in the area.

Sen. Bam: Yes, sir. Hindi pa ba lumalabas yung totoo, kahit kay Kian nalang, yung last hearing natin. Napaka-

Superintendent Fajardo: Sa court po magdedecide na yan, kasi nakafile na po.

Sen. Bam: Ok. Nakirig niyo na po yung sinabi ni Dr. Erfe? Ang klaro po ng kaniyang sinabi, nakahiga po- nakaluhod po yung si Kian nung binaril siya.

Superintendent Fajardo: Maniniwala po ako kung nandun po siya nung nangyari yun kasi opinyon na po iyon. Again, the court will be the one to decide.

Sen. Bam: So, sir, hindi kayo nainiwala sa forensic evidence?

Superintendent Fajardo: Again, court po ang magdedecide.

Sen. Bam: Yung CCTV, makikita na natin, may witness na tayo dito na si Kian yun, hindi rin kayo naniniwala sa CCTV?

Superintendent Fajardo: Kaya nga ho pinabayaan natin yung investigation, di natin sinira yung ebidensiya, then let the court decide po.

Dir. Obusan: My manifestation, Mr. Chair.

Sen. Bam: Yes, Director Obusan.

Dir. Obusan: Mr. Chair, your honors, the expert evidences have produced from the autopsy report and from the *inaudible* is just but in support to the actual happening of the event. That's why we need the testimonial evidences and other evidences to fully have all the market of evidences, putting into one fact that has happened during that incident.

Sen. Bam: Tama ho.

Dir. Obusan: But as of that time, Mr. Chair, nung ako'y utusan ni Chief PNP, nasabi niya, Roel, it's the time for us to clean up our image. You see to it that you can investigate the case properly.

Sen. Bam: Tama ho.

Dir. Obusan: That's the reason why I exerted effort, Mr. Chair and your honors, in going as far as to the barangay. Kasi kailangan talaga, Your Honor, yung testimonial evidence on witnesses. It so happened na nakay Madam Risa, Mr. Chair. It's quite a very very long time until now kaya hindi ako nagsubmit kay Chief PNP ng report because of all the expert opinions that we have at hand, we need the testimonial evidence, Your Honor. Kapag napagsama natin lahat, Your Honor, on the other pieces of evidence available in that market of evidence, Your Honor, definitely, we can establish now the fact, and we can really establish on our *inaudible* have conjectures, Your Honor, that- forgive me, Your Honor, my apologies- that we can say that really, we will please just own the expert of Dr. Orferio*, your honor. That's my manifestation, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: But, Director Obusan, hindi naman nagkakalayo yung sinabi ni Dr. Erfe at ni Dr. Cruz.

Dir. Obusan: *inaudible* to point- futher my point, Your Honor. Pwede nga kasing babaril na nakababa, na nakakababa ka tapos nasa taas yung kalaban mo, pwede kang dadapa. So it's a matter of testimony now kung witnesses, sa positioning, Your Honor. What is but the base by Dr. Erfe is the trajectory of the firearms, or the bullets upon entry and exit, Your Honor. But, how it was executed, nung time na ginagawa yun, kasi yung point of entry, Your Honor, is but a matter of seconds. Pero yung actual na giangawa niay during that time is also needed to be seen, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Okay. Pero Director, ang sinasabi niyo, ginagawa niyo po yung investigation. Hindi pa kayo sigurado.

Dir. Obusan: Magagawa ko saya, Your Honor, kung wala kay Madam Hontiveros na matagal yung mga testimonial evidences na iyon.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Maybe later, Sen. Risa can respond to that. But just on this point, ang sinasabi niyo, Police Chief Superintendent, is- officially, you're saying, kahit meron tayong testimony from PAO, ang sarili niyong Medikolegal, ang NBI, meron na ring nasabi sa imbestigasyon kay Kian, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, meron na po na sinasabi niyo, at this point, you still cannot conclude anything.

Sen. Lacson: May I just interject, ano. I'm not defending the PNP, but there's always this presumption of innocence. So panay ang sagot ni Chief Superintendent Fajardo, let the court decide, kasi maaga pa lang ngayon, nasa preliminary investigation. And we are not in the position to judge whether or not they're guilty. It is up to the court, because that's the criminal justice system. I would just like to point it out.

Sen. Bam: Yes, Chairman, it is up to the court to decide kung guilty po sila o hindi. At nasabi nga ni Secretary Aguirre, may proseso po iyon, na aabot po ng ilang buwan. However, all of these different agencies are- have investigatory duties. And in their investigation, meron na silang preliminary conclusion, which leads to the case. Kaya po ang PAO, nagsabi, based on kay Dr. Erfe, mukhang hindi lumaban yung bata, at mukhang- iyon yung kanilang official assessment. Is that right, Chief Acosta? That is your official assessment?

Chef Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Wala pong evidence ng paglaban.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Ok, NBI- ano po ang inyong- nakita niyo po sa kaso ni Kian?

*NBI Representative*: Actually, Your Honors, we already submitted the findings of the NBI to the Department of Justice, and we recommended to be charged, at least five personalities in-

Sen. Bam: Charged for?

*NBI Representative*: For murder, for violation of domicile, and another one for violation of Section 29, under RA 9165.

Sen. Bam: Alright, thank you very much. Secretary Aguirre, ang DOJ po ba, may official position pagdating po kay Kian Delos Santos?

Secretary Aguirre: Wala po pagdating sa guilt or innocence nila, kasi kami ang -

Sen. Bam: Oh, definitely.

Sec. Aguirre: Kami ang magiinvestigate niyan, eh.

Sen. Bam: Alright. But you have accepted the NBI report? You have accepted the PAO report? For your determination?

Sec. Aguirre: Actually po, yung workings ng DOJ, in relation to the Office of the Secretary, yung office ko po, in relation to the National Prosecutions Service, yun nga po ang palagi naming ipinaliliwanag eh- 'pag file namin, o ng sinuman na complainant sa National Prosecution Service, whether it be anywhere in the Philippines or in the Main Office of DOJ, yan pong National Prosecutions Service under the Prosecutor General, wala pong pakialam pa ang Office of the Secretary diyan.

Sen. Bam: So hindi pa nagsastart, in short. Sa inyong tanggapan, hindi pa nagsisimula.

Sec. Aguirre: Well, kasi, parti ko po ng tanggapan yung National Prosecutions Office, but we do not interfere. Kaya kung halimbawa, sa preliminary investion ba o National Prosecutions Service. Ngayon, kung iyan po ay magkakaroon ng resolution, anybody could appeal to our office, the Office of the Secretary. Yan po, nireresolba nung limang undersecretary, COA, at saka yung-...

Sen. Bam: Alam ho natin ang kasong iyan because of Supt. Marcos. In short, dito po sa proseso iyong ating prosecutor general na panel, will still determine, based on the reports they have received kung ano ang magiging move ng DOJ.

Sec. Aguirre: Magreresolba ang three-man panel na iyan. So far, dalawang complains with respect to Kian killing, iyon pong complaint ng PAO at complaint filed by the NBI. Iko-consolidate namin iyan. Kapag na-consolidate, they will be heard on Sept. 14 and 21. Mag-uumpisa lang po doon ang araw ng preliminary investigation formally.

Sen. Bam: Thank you for the clarification secretary pero pagkatapos ng preliminary investigation, there will be a determination from DOJ kung dapat sampahan ng kaso o hindi.

Sec. Aguirre: Opo, magkakaroon ng resolusyon ang national prosecution service natin. Kung may mag-appeal sa dalawang parties. They will appeal via petition for review sa office namin.

Sen. Bam: In short, may preliminary investigation na ang NBI at tapos na ang report. May medico-legal report na ang PNP na forensic, mayroon na ang PAO na forensic. Mayroon na ho tayong testimonya kay MC. Binubuo na po ang kaso at iyon rin ang hinahanap ni Mang Zaldy.

Sec. Aguirre: Dinidinig na po namin.

Sen. Bam: P/Chief Supt. I can understand your position, considering na mga tao niyo sila pero ang mahirap sigurong tanggapin is instead of looking for a solution na magawan ng paraan na matigil na ito, nagmamatigas kayo na let the court decide. Ano ba ang paraan para matigil ang ganitong klaseng pangyayari sa Caloocan.

Chief Supt: Ayaw din namin ang patayan talaga.

Sen. Bam: Please continue. Ano pa ang puwede niyong gawin?

Chief Supt: Kung puwede lang tumigil ang illegal drugs, siguro matitigil na rin po ang patayan.

Sen. Bam: But nasabi na po ng Presidente na it will take more than six years. Di ho kasi puwedeng unahan iyan. Hindi puwedeng pag wala nang drugs, wala nang patayan.

Chief Supt: Kaya nakikiusap tayo sa mga pusher kung puwede tumigil na po tayo kasi hindi rin titigil ang PNP sa pag-operate sa illegal drugs.

Sen. Bam: Hindi namin hinihiling na tumigil kayo. Ang hinihiling namin na ang mga pulis sa inyo na gumagawa ng ganito ay maitigil ng leadership ng PNP. Is that a reasonable request Gen Dela Rosa?

Gen. Bato: Yes your honor. Sagutin ko po kayo diyan your honor, we are doing our very best, your honor.

Sen. Bam: May koneksiyon ba ang kanilang promotion sa mga operations, wala naman o di ba? Meron po ba, ang kanilang pag-akyat sa PNP, may kinalaman sa operations nila?

Gen. Bato: Kung talagang magandang accomplishment your honor, mako-consider iyan for promotion but karamihan ngayon your honor, sa nakikita ko, iyong mga pulis ko, nagtatrabaho sila galing sa puso hindi po because of any motivation na ma-promote or whatever. In fact, they're risking their lives your honor. Ang problema ng police operatives, number one pag-operate mo, problema mo how to survive the encounter, paano ka mabuhay. Ngayon, kapag nag-successful ka sa unang problem mo, napatay mo ang kalaban. The next problem iyong legal offensive iyong legal resbak from the suspect or biktima dahil babalikan ka your honor. Makita sana ninyo ang kinakaharap ng pulis sa droga. Sana magdasal kayo na mahinto ang drug problem at hindi na kami mag-operate, wala na sanang problema your honor.

Sen. Bam: Just to be fair, lahat ng suporta na hiningi niyo sa Senado binigay namin. Sa budget, sa mga batas. In fact, there are many bills filed here na hiningi niyo four or five hearings ago. Pero hindi niyo siguro maipagkakait na kapag may nakikita kaming mali, kailangan pong i-point out. Kasi kapag walang nag-point out nito, kasama lang po iyan sa successful police operations. Nakita naman po natin na may mga maling nangyari. Kaya ginagawa rin ho namin ang trabaho namin habang gusto namin na gawin niyo ang trabaho niyo at hulihin talaga iyong mga totoong drug pusher at drug lord. Mayroon bang cash incentive ang mga kapulisan kapag may engkuwento.

Gen. Bato: Wala po your honor. Sinasabi ko your honor, they're operating using their heart. Isinapuso namin ang problema ngayon sa drugs dahil napakatagal napabayaan. Ngayon lang nagising an gating kapulisan na ganito na kalaki ang problema. Ang encouragement ko sa kanila, we fight drugs not for ourselves but for the future of our children and our grandchildren.

Sen. Bam: So ano ang tinatawag na combat incentive pay. Iba ho iyon?

Gen. Bato: With or without drug operation, incentive na talaga namin iyon. Kahit mag-relax ka, darating at darating na talaga ang combat incentive na iyan dahil kasama na iyan sa budget.

Sen. Bam: So ano ang combat incentive pay? Hindi ho iyan konektado sa drug operations?

Gen. Bato: Ay hindi po, Your Honor. Kahit nasa opisina ka lang, basta yung unit mo is involved sa combat operation, anti-criminality in.. sa operation, automatic yun. Darating at darating yun.

Sen. Bam: Kasi ho, yung combat incentive pay, nakita namin sa budget, that's about 3 billion pesos. 3.6 billion, nawala iyon last year. Gusto naming malaman, paano naibibigay? You don't have to answer right now, pero pano iyon naipapamahagi sa ating mga kasama at mga kapulisan? Ito po ba- kasi baka naman hindi niyo iniintend na ito yung maging incentive sa mga kapulisan natin, pero yung iba nga, let's say na-engganyo dahil meron pong incentive na ganiyan, ay gumawa ng masama. So gusto naming malaman, ano itong combat incentive pay na ito?

Gen. Bato: Your honor, if you have observed, tumaas yan, your honor. Lumaki, your honor. Dahil nga yung- diba nagpromise si Presidente na kung puwede, dodoblehin niya yung suweldo namin, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Ito po iyon-

Gen. Bato: Hindi man madoble-doble yung suweldo dahil kapag dinoble mo, your honor, mamumulubi yung Republika ng Pilipinas dahil lahat ng retired, kasama si Mr. Chairman Senator Lacson, Your honor, magbebenefit sa increase, your honor, so lahat, malaki ang babayaran ng ating gobyerno. So ang ginawa nalang to avoid that situation to happen, ginawang combat incentive nalang. In effect, maramdaman pa rin ng pulis na tumaas yung kanilang suweldo, although hindi na yung previous na nangyari, but in the form of incentive.

Sen. Lacson: Ano ito, pare-pareho sa PNCO at tsaka PCO? Combat incentive pay? HOw much? Pare-pareho? Pare-pareho ito? Hindi graduated?

Gen. Bato: Pare-pareho, your honor.

Sen. Bam: So parang allowance...

Sen. Lacson: *inaudiable* the situation, ano. Kasi nakapagbitaw ng salita ang Pangulo na dodoble na ang suweldo, only to realize na pag dinoble ang suweldo, lahat naka-base sa base pay.

Gen. Bato: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Lacson: So tataas. Ito yung long pay, lahat ng pay, tataas, kasi nga, naka-base sa base pay.

Gen. Bato: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Lacson: So to compliment, para lang maremedyas yung situation, dinaan nalang sa combat incentive pay, which each and every police over, regardless of rank, receives, diba. So clear enough.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So baka kailangan baguhin lang yung titulo. Kasi combat incentive means, yung dating samin, is para lang sa mga operatives natin. But what you're saying is lahat ng police, matatanggap ng allowance na ito, whether they are operatives, they are desk, they're investigators, lahat po iyan.

Gen. Bato: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: So kaklaruhin natin iyan sa budget na hindi ito para lang sa mga gumagawa ng anti-drug operations natin. Is that okay, General?

Gen. Bato: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So baka kinakailangan baguhin rin yung title para maging mas malinaw na allowance ito para sa lahat ng kapulisan.

Gen. Bato: Puwede po, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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