TRANSCRIPT OF DOORSTOP INTERVIEW OF SEN. FRANCIS PANGILINAN ON SECURITY ISSUES WITH CHINA TELCO

Q: Sir, sa risk analysis, susceptible to eavesdropping 'yung AFP, military...

SFNP: Yes, yes. Eavesdropping, susceptible to jamming, or in other words, high risk siya in terms of jamming, eavesdropping pero ang sinabi sa atin ng AFP at ng Secretary precisely why they put in place additional safeguards sa sistema nila in terms of 'yung impact. Ang ating concern lang talaga dito is dapat maliwanag sa AFP at sa DND na mayroong risk ito kung hindi magkaroon ng necessary safeguards at dapat maigting ang pagmo-monitor ng AFP, ng kanilang cybersecurity personnel dito sa arrangement na ito.

Q: Sir, are you satisfied?

SFNP: Well, sabi ko nga, tingnan natin. Ano pang additional safeguards na dapat mailagay dito. We placed it on record na kahit sa US saka sa UK, sa ibang bansa, in fact, banned 'yung ilang Chinese telco companies, 'yung phone company na Huawei, may mga concerns in terms of security so I am very concerned. Binigyan tayo ng assurance. Ang sa akin dito, dapat maging mapagbantay, dapat tiyakin na may necessary safeguards at dapat mabilis nating mamo-monitor kung mayroong hindi tama, we should terminate the contract immediately.

Q: Sir, do you think the government or the military actually has the capability to check whether these concerns they raised are actually happening or being done like evesdropping...

SFNP: Well, if they do not, they should have. They should beef up their capacity.

Q: On that part hindi malinaw, sir.

SFNP: Sabi nila mayroon silang capacity so we will take their word for it. Pero palagay ko we really need to double up sa pagtiyak na ang capacity nila ay ma-beef up at para mabantayan itong mga sistema na ito at hindi mauwi sa espionage kasi sabi ko nga ang batas mismo ng China na pinasa nila noong 2014 at 2017, ang mga organisasyon ay pwedeng diktahan o imandato ng gobyerno ng China na mag-cooperate sa intelligence gathering, information gathering at espionage. And China telco is a Chinese company--is a state-owned company.

Q: Sir, enough ba 'yung binabanggit kanina na unilaterally pwedeng i-revoke ng DND 'yung contract? Do you think that is enough a safeguard?

SFNP: That is one safeguard. Importante 'yon dahil 'pag nakita at natiktikan na meron talagang hindi tamang mga kilos at hindi tamang paggamit ng teknolohiya at impormasyon at nililikom ito para sa anumang dahilan, eh dapat mabilis pa sa alas kwatro ay patalsikin at tanggalin itong ganitong klaseng arrangement.

Q: Sir, nakikita niyo sa China 'yung possibility na gamitin sa mga kumpanya nila dito yung nasabing batas? Na gamitin para tiktikan tayo.

SFNP: Kasama dapat 'yan sa mga posibilidad at scenarios na dapat mangyari. Kaya dapat maging mapagbantay tayo. Dapat handa tayo. Dapat mayroon tayong kapasidad na mamonitor ito.

Q: 'Yun 'yung apprehension niyo.

SFNP: Yes. Andiyan ang batas nila. Ang mga organisasyon ay mayroong tungkulin na makibahagi sa mga information gathering kung imamandato ito ng kanilang gobyerno. At sabi ko nga, lalo na't mayroon tayong isyu sa kasalukuyan ay pinag-aawayan nga 'yung West Philippine Sea at sinasakop nila ang paniwala nating atin. Ano lang ang gamitin nila 'yung teknolohiya para malaman ang ating plano, para malaman ang kilos ng ating Armed Forces. 'Yan ang dapat nating bantayan. Binigyan tayo ng assurance at sa atin dito, ay kinakailangan talaga maging mapagbantay. Mabilis pa sa alas kwatro, ika nga, 'pag nakita natin at na-monitor natin ang hindi magandang palakad dito sa arrangement na ito, dapat i-terminate kaagad.

Q: Sir, but you are still registering your opposition or you're still would ask the AFP na kung pwede na lang sila...

SFNP: Kung ako, mas gusto ko na sana we err on the side of caution but at the same time we recognize na may problema ang ating mga telco dahil sa mabagal na serbisyo. Kinakailangan nating balansehin parehas. In the end, sa akin, basta mabantayan ito at matiyak na mayroong enough capacity and technology for us to be able to protect the information that flows through these telcos at hindi ito ginagamit laban sa atin. We should be able to at least test it in that manner but precisely we should have enough safeguards na oras na nakita nating hindi maganda at mayroong matibay-tibay na impormasyon na ginagamit pabor sa kanila at kontra sa atin eh dapat ma-terminate kaagad.

Q: Sir, aren't you concerned that they seem to be parang ang bilis nilang pinasok 'yung agreement? Was that one of the concerns raised early on that given like sabi nga ng maraming tao no brainer what security risk this kind of arrangement presents. And yet they launched headlong into it and it took a Senate inquiry to make them think twice given that the secretary also said that he was inclined to approve it.

SFNP: Initially, sabi niya hindi nga siya nabigyan--actually 'yung isang cause for concern nga roon is nagkaroon ng signing pero hindi siya nainform and that's precisely why sabi natin bakit ganoon. At tinanong natin ito noon sa committee hearing pa lang. Kaya nga sabi natin kung maaari bigyan tayo ng dokumento at nakuha naman natin ngayon at pinag-aralan atin nang maayos, we can see na mayroon talagang concerns na dapat matugunan nang maayos. I think major dito is the capacity and the technology to be able to ensure na 'yung safeguards are in place and that namo-monitor natin 'yung kilos nitong telco na ito.

Q: Sir, would you comment on the: why would we even put ourselves in this situation where we have to debate whether or not the risk outweighs the benefits. I mean the fact that...

SFNP: Sa lahat naman ng bagay may mga risks. Sa lahat naman ng ganitong mga usapin, you have to weigh kung ano 'yung positibo ano 'yung negatibo. Nakikita natin 'yung concern ng ating mga cellphone users na napakabagal ng telco services natin at kinakailangan ng kompetisyon. Ang sa atin, 'wag lang tatlong player. Dapat lima o anim. Eh ang Singapore lima, anima ta ang kanilang telcos bakit sa atin tatlo lang?

Q: Sir, hinihintay daw nila Sec. Lorenzana 'yung recommendation niyo. So given the risks, sa inyo, go pa rin, sir, itong MOA?

SFNP: We are now going to review their answers. Kanina lang natin nakuha ang sagot nila. So pag-aaralan ko ngayon then we will see how we can move forward in terms of this matter.

Q: But you're not ready to say na: wag na lang? 'Wag na ituloy ang mga ganitong risk of espionage baka mauwi lang na madehado tayo.

SFNP: Andiyan talaga 'yung concern. I continue to have that concern. This can be actually used to gather information by the telco for whatever purpose. So we will have to look into this also and weigh it moving forward.

Q: Sir, if you weigh the pros and cons, is it worth it to risk our privacy?

SFNP: I cannot give you the answer now. I have to review their answers. I have to go through the transcript. I might sit down with the Secretary also about this and the Chief of Staff. We will see. Kanina ko lang nakuha 'yung mga sagot nila. Gusto kong busisiin din. I want to review their answers and see based--I also have experts that I'd like to confer with and get their sense and get their comments regarding--hindi ako expert sa technology eh. Ako'y abogado at magsasaka.

Q: Sir, ano pa lang 'yan, national security. Paano 'yung privacy ng mga individual citizens?

SFNP: Kasama din 'yon. Kasama nga din 'yon sa mga technological concerns na gusto ko ring kunan ng inputs ang ating mga technology/IT experts.

Q: You have an alternative side like to suggest para may compromise, ilipat. Mayroon kayong...?

SFNP: Ako kasi, a lot of this has to do with 'yung technology eh. A lot of this has to do with do we have the technological capacity to be able to ensure na hindi tayo nalulusutan at hindi ginagamit 'yung teknolohiya laban sa atin. So I really have to sit down with some experts, additional time for us to look into this and see ano 'yung mga dagdag na implication nito base sa mga sagot nila kanina.

Q: Sir, they are waiting for your inputs. Initially anong mabibigay niyo sa kanila?

SFNP: Initially, gusto kong malaman ang magiging inputs ng ating IT experts. Hindi ako IT expert kaya hindi ko masasabi base sa sagot nila ngayon ano ang pinakamainam. We need to have expert, technology experts on board to be able to come up with a better grasp of the challenges and the issues concerning cybersecurity.

Q: Sir, would you have the authority to reject this? Ibig sabihin, kasi nung tinanong si Sec. Lorenzana ang sinabi niya well Congress gave the franchise and it boiled down to the franchise for all intents and purposes, the AFP must treat them as a legitimate telco and whatever the other two telcos have, they have to give. Parang yun ang sinasabi nila. What are the measures...?

SFNP: Tingnan natin. That is one option. We revisit the franchise. But at this point, medyo premature pa 'yon. I really need to get the IT guys to look into this. Tingnan ng mga magagaling nating mga hacker [jokingly] este mga IT experts kung ano ang posibleng pwede pang gawin para mapalakas 'yung ating mga security safeguards.

ON SEC. PANELO'S COMMENT

Q: Sir, comment niyo lang doon sa Sec. Panelo's line that the previous administration was not able to finish a single infra project.

SFNP: Maliwanag hindi 'yon totoo kaya nakakalungkot na ang spokesperson ay nagsasabi ng hindi totoo.

ON MEETING WITH VP ROBREDO US ANTI DRUG

SFNP: I think we should listen to, reach out to various stakeholders, offices, entities, who are interested to address this problem of illegal drugs in the country including intelligence information sharing. Bottomline, nasaan ba 'yung malalaking mga sindikato? ANo ang ginagawa nila at paano natin sila hahabulin? Kasi tatlong taon na eh hanggang ngayon 'yung malalaking sindikato ay lipana pa rin at 'yung mga nagpapalusot ng tone-toneladang shabu ay wala namang pinaparusahang malalaking tao. So kung kukuha tayo ng suporta in terms of information and data and intelligence information, mahalaga 'yon para talagang epektibo 'yung kampanya hindi lang 'yung maliliit ang hinahabol kundi 'yung mismong suplay at 'yung source. Lahat ng pupuwedeng makatulong, lahat ng impormasyon na maaaring maging paraan para maging mas epektibo itong kampanya, dapat bigyan ng oras.

Q: Sir, she also have her critics, sir. No less than the Speaker is hitting her.

SFNP: Ang sa atin, let them do their worst. I think the Vice President will, in all that, will just do her best.