Transcript of Senator Risa Hontiveros interview with Karen Davila on ANC's Headstart
March 13, 2024

Q: Senator Hontiveros, good morning to you.

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): Good morning Karen

Q: Alright, so take us what can happen. Pastor Apollo Quiboloy has 48 hours. Most likely, he may not show up in the Senate, but then you may have a surprise. Let's say he doesn't reveal himself. He does not attend. What can happen?

SRH: Well, if the pastor, does not, within these two days, 48 hours, show cause, give a good reason to the Senate, for why he should not be arrested, that arrest process will be set into motion. The show cause order is dated 13th March today.

So he has, in principle, until Friday to give us a good reason why he doesn't show up, so he should not be arrested. And if he doesn't speak or give a good reason, then the Senate President who signed the show cause order will instruct the OSAA to effect the arrest.

Q: Okay. But then Quiboloy is in hiding. If the Senate instructs the arrest and he cannot be found, what happens then, Senator?

SRH: We ask the Senate President, I asked that question also about an earlier matter during one of the earlier hearings. Noon, yung issue pa lang ay subpoena. Because that was the time na he had ignored not one, but two invitations of my Senate Committee on Women. So subpoena yung pinag-uusapan namin. And someone did ask, how are we going to serve it if OSAA cannot find him?

And naitanong ko yun sa DILG. And they replied in the affirmative that yes, the PNP could be requested by the Senate to assist our Office of the Sergeant at Arms. So I believe, lalo na sa ganitong later stage ng posibleng arrest na kung hindi mahanap ng aming Senate security, pwedeng mag-request kami ng tulong ng Philippine National Police.

Q: Alright. Now, there are two hearings that are ongoing and I think it's important just to give an overview to the audience. The hearing that is going on in the lower house is regarding the franchise of SMNI. Of course, it is still associated with Apollo Quiboloy, but it has nothing to do with the hearings going on under your committee in the Senate.

SRH: That's right, because franchise bills emanate from the House. So unless and until the House transmits their completed franchise bill, well, renewal, or rejection of it, the Senate will not be able to work on it. Indirectly lang, nababanggit ang SMNI sa mga hearings namin sa Senado because one of the witnesses, victim-survivors, alias Rene, told us that in the years he was made to work as a researcher at kung ano-ano pa, SMNI, he never received a regular wage, he never received the, the benefits due him under the law. And in fact, yun yung isa sa mga legislative issues na nag-e-emerge sa mga hearings namin.

We always say, we conduct investigations of resolutions in aid of legislation. And that very issue is relevant sa kaso ni alias Rene. Yung tanong na, anong mga labor laws natin nagre-regulate ng mga sinasabing voluntary na trabaho? Pero malinaw, there are violations of labor.

There are also violations of occupational safety and health standards. So, wala bang proteksyon ng batas para sa mga katulad ni alias Rene?

Q: But that's a smaller issue. I mean, it is serious. But compared to the other allegations that Pastor Apollo Quiboloy is facing, right? In the United States alone, he is facing charges of child trafficking, sex trafficking, child abuse in, in terms of, in sexual forms as well I believe. Are there issues of money laundering as well?

SRH: I think there are half a dozen cases already or charges that have been filed in court. I'm really glad na pinabuksan nung judge na yun sa California yung, yung warrant instrument. And it's possible na isa sa kalahating, I'm just looking for, my list here, it's a half, list of a half dozen, also includes money laundering or something related to it. Dahil isa na yun sa alam natin, medyo matagal-tagal ng iniimbestigahan ang Federal Bureau of Investigation so that the, the U.S. government had frozen Quiboloy's assets in their country. They had placed Quiboloy on the FBI's most wanted list.

Ito yung listahan of the charges, the cases against Quiboloy in the U.S. by virtue of that unsealed warrant. Charges of conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking by force, fraud, coercion, sex trafficking of children, conspiracy, and cash smuggling. So, bakaisa o ilan dito ay related sa money laundering. So, seryoso, in our own next hearing in the Senate, we will be inviting the Anti-Money Laundering Council. Dahil, doon naman sa testimonya nung isa pang victim survivor, si Reynita, and she revealed her true name, she she showed her face on camera from Singapore.

She told of how ginagamit yung mga savings accounts nilang mga OFW para doon magdaan ng mga malalaking halagang pera papunta kay Quiboloy doon sa Davao. So, kaya tatanungin din namin ng AMLC sa issue iyan in the next hearing.

Q: Okay. Now, here is a man who is you've talked about, you've mentioned six or seven charges, but let's talk about one. A man who is accused of sex trafficking of children in the United States. And you have colleagues, Senator Robin Padilla, Senator Cynthia Villar, Senator Imee Marcos, and now, no less than Vice President Sarah Duterte, defending a suspected sex trafficker of children, no less.

Now, what is your reaction to this?

SRH: Well, first, I'm just glad na yung majority ng mga kasama ko sa Senado upheld my ruling citing Quiboloy in contempt. And that has paved the way for this show-cause order na una nating pinag-usapan, na pinirmahan namin ni Senate President Migz Zubiri and umaandar na ngayong 48-hour period.

Pero, nakapagtataka kapag ang administrasyon or at least the office of the Vice President, mas dedepensahan pa nila yung precisely isang tao na accused of the worst crimes against the most vulnerable of our society. Dapat sana yung energy na yan ibuhos na lang nila sa pagdepensa sa mga karapatan ng ating mga mamamayan at precisely children who are dorced to beg, OFWs like Reynita, forced to give up their hard-earned remittances para suportahan yung lavish lifestyle ni Quiboloy sa halip na ipadala sa kanilang mga pamilya.

For one, Reynita lost her house here in the Philippines dahil hindi na niya mabayaran yung mortgage.

Dapat depensahan yung mga babae na paulit-ulit ginagahasa in the belief foisted upon them na sakripisyo nila yun for the so-called appointed son of God.

So dapat sana pagdepensa sa mga kababayang iyon. Pagdepensa sa soberanya natin sa West Philippines at marami pang ibang problema. Instead of at such a high office of the government defending someone who over time sa kanyang pag-iwas, sa pagharap sa imbestigasyon, hindi pagbigay ng maayos na sagot, pagtatago, paglabas ng napaka sabi ko out of this world ng mga kondisyones. So someone who over time seems less and less to deserve that kind of high defense.

Q: And what's interesting right now is that, considering you are in the minority, there are only two of you. Yourself, who's quite vocal on so many issues and Senator Koko Pimentel, two opposition senators and yet the majority isn't voting as one when it comes to this matter. That's so interesting. Don't you think? That they don't accept the numbers. They don't accept the numbers when it comes to Quiboloy. Senator Robin Padilla was trying. You have a senior member like Senator Cynthia Villar standing up for him. You don't do that to a friend, the president's sister. And yet, none of the other majority senators are budging.

SRH: I really thank them for their firm stand upholding the speaking of truth and the seeking of justice of all the victim-survivors. Lalo na yung mga kabaro natin at yung mga menor de edad. Altogether, we prove once again that the Senate can cross party lines and stand up as an institution for the rights and welfare of the most vulnerable. Nagpapasalamat talaga ako sa kanila.

Q: Okay. Now, Pastor Quiboloy not showing up for the Senate is one thing. But next complexity is if a warrant of arrest is issued against him by the United States. Let's talk about that. Are we bound as a country to actually surrender Quiboloy, to turn him over? Right? Are we bound?

SRH: That's a serious option for our government because we actually have an extradition treaty between the Philippines and the United States. So if and when an extradition request will come from the U.S., option talaga ng gobyerno natin na at some point or other to send him to the U.S. to also face the cases there.

Of course, ang isa pang magandang development dito, nag-hain na ng mga kaso ang Department of Justice with the assistance of the Solicitor General laban kay Quiboloy on two of the three cases na hinain sa kanya sa Davao, dinismiss doon, pero inelevate nung complainant sa DOJ. The two cases that DOJ has now filed involve child abuse and human trafficking. So yun yung dalawang kasong umaandar na dito sa Philippine court.

If, and when that US extradition request is received by our government, then pwede silang mag-decide itutuloy muna ba yung mga kaso dito or ipadadala na muna siya sa US under extradition or tapusin muna yung mga kaso dito saka i-extradite. But at least, nung itinanong namin yung isyung iyan, I think second to the most recent hearing, nakapagsalita ang DOJ sa ganung mga options. So at least, they're already thinking about or preparing for the eventuality of an extradition request.

Q: Now, the side of Pastor Apollo Quiboloy, I think both in the lower house and in the Senate, has actually said that he's being targeted politically... That his rights are being violated, right? So you have two houses that are holding up big hearings for different issues but essentially both against him. Now, in terms of the Senate, was there a shortcut? Was there a new process? Is he being politicized and targeted? Or if it would have been another person facing the same issue at this point, he would have been really issued a contempt order? Or in fact, has the Senate given him some leeway?

SRH: Hmm. Actually, no shortcuts at all. But, I believe, no leeway either. The Senate has simply followed our rules. Simpleng ine-exercise namin yung aming mandato at yung aming mga kapangyarihan under the law and under our rules. To, and even the Supreme Court has spoken on this, na to compel the appearance of witnesses to, in proper investigations of resolutions with a legislative intent. Wala pong paglabag sa due process kay Pastor Quiboloy. Wala pong pagpapaimportante ng Senado over other institutions or even branches of government. And again, the Supreme Court has spoken on that point.

Actually, Quiboloy dug his own grave. Imagine, pinadala namin siya ng hindi nga isa lamang dalawang, imbitasyon. Nung dinedma niya yung mga yon, saka kami, nag-issue ng subpoena. At nung dinedma pa niya yon, saka kami, may show cause order kung ba't hindi siya dapat arestuhin. And he has two full days to simply communicate to us a good enough reason why he should not be arrested.

At ang daming ibang mga resource person, including officials of state and church na humarap sa Senate hearings in the aid of legislation. So hindi siya naiiba sa kahit sinong mamamayan ng Pilipinas. All of us who are accountable to our laws.

Q: And in fact, I mean, if we go back, I mean, in history, I've been a journalist for so long. If an ordinary citizen was attending a Senate hearing, and in so many cases in the past, that citizen refused to answer, refused to cooperate, you'd have previous committee chair citing them in contempt and frankly, detaining them in the Senate.

SRH: Opo, hindi pa nga umaabot sa ganyan si Pastor. And at least, in the case of those citizens, they actually attended at least one hearing. Eh si Quiboloy, hindi pa nga naga-attend kung ano-ano ng mga demands, kondisyones.

Sabi ko nga, yung 17 conditions niya na lumabas sa kanilang mga social media platforms, daig pa ang sampung utos ng Diyos. Whereas citizens, countless citizens by now, and counting, have simply respected the Senate, respected its processes, and made themselves available. Siya itong playing super hard to get talaga.

Q: Now, Senator, Senate investigations are in aid of legislation. But the fact is, committee reports coming from the Senate can actually be used in court. Am I correct?

SRH: That's right.

Q: So that's the other thing here, right? Even if it's in aid of legislation, there's a probative value because it can be used as evidence, right?

SRH: Tama. And it has been in many cases in the past. And in fact, kahit habang tumatakbo pa ang hearing, there have been times, for example, in our Senate Committee on Women Investigation of POGO-related crimes against women and others, naglunsad na rin ng parallel investigations, yung mga investigative and law enforcement agencies natin. And they have, even during the Senate hearings, already imposed disciplinary actions against those they found and proved to be guilty.

Q: So in connection to that, Senator, what is the intention of your hearing? Of course, getting to the truth is the ultimate intention. But is it really in aid of legislation? Or you believe Quiboloy is a dangerous man who's abused his power? And frankly, we need to help ordinary citizens build a case against him. Where does your intention lie?

SRH: Of course, in principle, in both. But the second effect, it's not for the Senate to establish his innocence or guilt in terms of those crimes and to impose a sentence. It's really on our courts. But the first purpose is squarely within our mandate. At nasabi ko na rin sa opening statement ko sa most recent hearing, there are emerging already at least three areas of legislation that our hearing will surely be able to address sa aming committee report, sa findings and recommendations. Isa na dun yung sexual abuse within secretive religious organizations and issue of consent in faith-based dynamics. Matatanong kasi natin, meron bang meaningful consent kapag yung babae o yung menor de edad is isolated, is controlled in his or her physical and psychological situation and then is placed in the position to sacrifice herself, her body even, to someone claiming to be the appointed son of God. So anong areas, anong amendments sa ating mga batas ang kakailanganin to protect still the rights and welfare of a woman or a person in that situation.

Isa pang emerging area for corrective legislation, the inability of our labor laws to sufficiently address voluntary labor arrangements where there are no clear employee-employee relationships but clear violations of labor and occupational and safety health services. We talked about Alias Rene, even SSS and DOLE did not determine what category of worker he belonged to.

Q: And that's a good point you're making there. I'll take on the second one. It's because religious organizations, I'm not sure if it's only in the Philippines, but they're tax-free. Right? In the Philippines. So if they're tax-free, they don't consider themselves most likely an employing entity, right? So they're in that gray zone. And then you do have many, many or possibly churches who could be abusing workers because of that definition that they're tax-free. That they're essentially not a corporation that employs people per se. That's one.

SRH: Yes, I know of churches who like this Kingdom of Jesus Christ of Quiboloy which runs a media network that's now being reviewed in its franchise in the House who are violating their workers' rights. I also know of churches na meron ding mga attached companies pero may malinaw na sweldo at mga benefits. At yung mga pera ng mga simbahan that are for their religious, truly religious activities, yun ang tax-free.

Pero dito sa kaso ni Quiboloy, baka pwede natin itanong, yung mga pera which he makes his followers beg. And then they go to his personal use. Tulad nung sinabi ni Sir Dindo from Canada, maya't maya they've been asked for 40,000-60,000 Canadian dollars for the jet fuel of Quiboloy's private jet. Church activity ba yun? Should that be?

Q: My bigger issue really is, is it time to really review? It's very hard for legislators to do this because it might be unpopular to the church. But frankly, should churches be tax-free? I mean, seriously.

SRH: Well, that can be asked. And if the correct answer is yes, then it can be (inaudible). In areas where it's abused for the personal use to support lavish lifestyles of self-appointed religious figures who are on the side pala for years abusing their followers and violating the laws of our Republic. Eh talagang excuse me. Paano bibigyan ng tax shelter pala yung ganyang klaseng mga self-appointed na kung ano-ano?

Q: Another issue you brought up was the minor who was 15 years old. I wanted to ask you, isn't the law that's existing, isn't 16 years old? Please correct me with this, Senator. Isn't that the age of consent in the Philippines?

SRH: It's now the age of consent. We raised it in the bill, the now law, we raised the very low age of consent before of only 12 to 16. Yes.

Q: So technically speaking, if the 15-year-old who testified in the Senate was forced to have sex, supposedly, at 15, prior to the lifting of the age of consent, would her situation be a gray situation or would the uplifting of the law cover her situation?

SRH: Yung batas kasi hindi siya pwedeng retroactive. Pero at least established na yung prinsipyo that even then, when she was a minor, she's now of legal age, but she was a minor then, may paglabag na nangyari. And even if she had been of legal age already, if that constituted rape, punishable na rin noon at lalo na ngayon.

Q: Okay. So I think I want to stick with this issue. Because it's quite urgent in the sense that there's a 48-hour countdown for Pastor Quiboloy to actually show up in the Senate and present himself. If he does, what can he be assured of? You have this lawyer, right? Attorney Ferdie Topacio, telling you in the Senate hearing, it's because of all the frenzy, he's scared for, you heard that, right? So, if within two days, his mind can be convinced to show up, what can he expect?

SRH: He can expect a solid hearing, like the committees of the Senate have been conducting, I can't say from time immemorial, but for many years, bound by our own rules, cognizant of Supreme Court rulings with regard to the delimitations between branches of government and how we conduct our work.

Ang tagal-tagal na niya kasing iniimbita eh. Siya yung ayaw magpaunlak. So, of course, actually, the frenzy that his lawyer talks about is not created by the Senate or any government institution. Sabi ko nga kanina, he dug his own grave. Dahil umiiwas siya, hindi magbigay nang maayos na sagot, may mga kondisyones, tuloy naisip ng publiko na mayroon siya talagang tintago. That's where the frenzy is coming from, from him.

Q: All right. To end this, I think what's most important is, with your resolution, is the fact, is this right to say, you have the support of the Senate President?

SRH: I'm very glad of that. So, today, the show cause order signed by SP Migz Zubiri and me is out. And yes, you're right, that starts the clock ticking for 48 hours. Quiboloy has to give the Senate a good reason why he should not be arrested. Otherwise, he will be. And we have the full force of the Senate, through the Senate leadership behind that.

Q: What is your warning for Pastor Apollo Quiboloy? This is a man who's had thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers and to a degree has lorded it over in Davao for decades, right? And has built his own kingdom. I've actually been in the compound at one point many years ago, interviewed him for Correspondents, and it's really a whole other world. There's a different set of rules there.

SRH: Well, my warning for him is, you know, all these years that you have laid down and imposed those rules on your followers, even to the point of abusing their rights and welfare, in the Senate you will find that we follow our rules, but we also expect citizens like yourself, Pastor Quiboloy, whom we ask to speak on issues that are important to people to respect those rules.

Dahil ayaw niyong respetuhin yung mga rules na iyan sa imbitasyon namin sa sabi na, eto na kayo ngayon sa puntong ito na baka maaresto. So give us a good reason why we shouldn't do that. Otherwise, the Senate will exercise its mandate.