Senator Imee Marcos Interview Transcript from Head Start with Karen Davila, ABS-CBN News Channel

TOPICS:

- Dubious suppliers of healthcare equipment
-Questionable procurement practices and supply distribution to LGUs
- Accountability of Secretary Duque and other government officials
- Need for new procurement laws and streamlined bureaucracy

KAREN DAVILA (KD): JOINING US NOW THIS MORNING, WE HAVE SENATOR IMEE MARCOS. SHE DISCOVERED UNACCREDITED AND UNREGISTERED SUPPLIERS AS SOURCES FOR PROCUREMENT BY THE DBM AND WE HAVE HER WITH US THIS MORNING. SENATOR IMEE MARCOS, GOOD MORNING TO YOU.

Senator Imee Marcos (SIRM): Good morning, Karen. Good morning to everyone. Hindi masyadong good dahil puros masamang balita, and it was a very exhausting second hearing regarding the DOH. Yes, there are all sorts of strange suppliers. Clearly, the DBM-PS accredited people that we've never heard of before. People like Bowman Technologies had no FDA approval. Nikka Trading? Sino-sino ba yan? Then, of course, pinaka-namamayagpag sa lahat, Sunwest Construction. Bakit yung building at construction na kompanya biglang nagiging medical equipment supplier. Nakapagtataka talaga e. It's a really strange list. Sabi nga, Alice In Wonderland indeed! This is getting curiouser and curiouser!

KAREN: I'M CURIOUS, SEN. IMEE, WERE YOU ABLE TO DISCOVER DURING THE HEARING OR AT LEAST YOUR DOCUMENTS JUST HOW MUCH OF THAT 42 BILLION WENT TO THESE COMPANIES?

SIRM: Yes, it's a huge amount and you know the 42 billion is only last year. That's only as of December 2020. Tuloy-tuloy ang bidding niyan ha, and that's going on until today. In fact, we've had huge protests from the local manufacturers of PPE, mula sa pinaka-maliliit na mananahing nanay sa Taytay (Rizal) hanggang sa mga nagre-tool na exporters na talagang pinagpilitang bumili ng mga makinarya, microbial fabric, and so on to provide the PPEs. Pagkatapos, pinakiusapan ng gobyerno, hindi bumili, hindi kami bumili, DOH, pambihira talaga! At nakapagtataka kung bakit, we could have saved 25,000 jobs perhaps, at least generated income for any number of families. And yet what do we prefer to do? Buy sub-standard from China under these very peculiar circumstances. Puro negotiated bid, puro pa hindi nag-tender and award, ang gulo.

KAREN: YOU MENTIONED IN THAT HEARING - LET'S START WITH THE OVERPRICED MASKS AND SHIELDS - IT CAME FROM SIX COMPANIES AND YOU DISCOVERED PHARMALLY PHARMACEUTICAL CORPORATION. AM I CORRECT? HOW MUCH MONEY DID PHARMALLY PHARMACEUTICAL CORPORATION MAKE WITH THE MASKS?

SIRM: Well, I'm not certain kung yong tinatawag na "tongpats" pero napakalaki kasi nung masks, binebenta ng 27 pesos per piece.

KAREN: HOW MUCH WAS THE CONTRACT?

SIRM: The contract was nine billion in nine contracts, and the funny thing was it was incorporated in 2019. It declared in sales nine billion worth of awarded negotiated government contracts. I don't know how it complied, kasi merong rules yan di ba?

KAREN: NINE BILLION JUST FOR THAT COMPANY?

SIRM: For that company and it has no record in medical supplies, it has no background or track record for capacity, kasi may single largest contract. You should have had a huge contract in the past to justify giving an even a larger contract in the present. But there is no past, kasi ang bago-bago ng kompanya kaya nakakapagtaka.

KAREN: AND WHAT DID CHRISTOPER LAO SAY? HOW ARE THESE COMPANIES CHOSEN?

SIRM: Well, basically the justification was that it was a period of emergency, everything was in short supply. Paulit-ulit lang kasi yong mga dahilan, yong presyo daw talagang 27 pesos sa face mask. Samantalang alam natin na two pesos, pagkatapos yong face shield 120 (pesos) na lahat tayo nagtataka. We are the only country on earth requiring face shields. I mean this goes on and on.

KAREN: DID HE BREAK ANY LAWS? HE TOLD ALL OF YOU A MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR THE FUND TRANSFER OF THE DOH TO THE DBM. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT SENATOR?

SIRM: Yes, there's a real rule that basically says if these are items for common use (equipment), therefore, a memo is not required. However, a MOA is in fact required when you are bringing in equipment and all sorts of other requirements. So, I think malabo e. Unang-una, bakit nilipat-lipat yong mga pera. I don't understand. DOH is constantly bidding out contracts for all sorts of medical supplies, for equipment, for medicines. Why do they suddenly have to move it to the DBM-PS or PITC, the one under DTI. What are these highly organized bidding networks that suddenly came up and they are keeping billions upon billions of money from all sorts of people. They are bidding out guns, for example, for the AFP, they are bidding out construction materials, and now they are doing PPEs. Why is this necessary? Why can't the department do it themselves since they are the specialists in that area? And what are the rules that govern these "magical fund transfers."

KAREN: ALL THESE COMPANIES THAT YOU DISCOVERED, THESE UNREGISTERED SUPPLIERS, DID ANY OF THEM GO THROUGH A BIDDING PROCESS OR WHERE THEY JUST ALL NEGOTIATED BY THE DBM PROCUREMENT OFFICE?

SIRM: Yes, they are going through the DBM procurement office. The ones flagged by COA, those last year, puro negotiated yon. Although they are saying that some underwent some kind of procedure, and I think it's apparent that they are now trying to conform with the basic laws of bid and award. However, if you talk to our local manufacturers who constantly lose bids, you realize na kung anu-anong nangyayari. I mean, they will conduct the bidding, but the bid documents are not available. They'll close the bidding at 9 o'clock when in fact it was supposed to be at 1 p.m. Alam mo na, yung kanya-kanyang areglo, pagalingan yan ng diskarte.

KAREN: YOU ARE POINTING OUT TWO THINGS: ONE, THE SUPPLIERS ARE QUESTIONABLE THEMSELVES, BUT A BIGGER ONE IS WHY THEY EVEN IMPORT FROM CHINA WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HAD ASKED OUR LOCAL MANUFACTURERS TO PREPARE, INNOVATE, AND PIVOT TOWARDS PPE, MASK AND SHIELD PRODUCTION?

SIRM: Yes, that's correct. That's a really big issue. We are actually getting from China, substandard items. Ang sabi kasi, U.S. surgical grade. That's only one standard and it's used inside hospitals. There are four levels, for example, of masks. Apat pala yun; we are learning as we go. And as it turns out, these masks are very, very cheap from China because they weren't anywhere near surgical grade. They were in fact the very cheap ones. Pwede naman gamitin yan para sa kalye, sa ating mga BHW, halimbawa, or else yung mga contact tracers, yung hindi talaga face-to-face contact. Pero itong para sa surgical grade, ibang usapan yan. And we know, for a fact, that our garment exporters went out of their way, spent their own money, and really determined to help us because we were not able to import any, di ba? Nagdadamutan sa medical supplies, hanggang ngayon nagdadamutan pa rin sa vaccines. So, it's really important and I think, you know, the upside of all of this is, at the end of the day, is that we're learning and one of them is health security. We need to be able to manufacture locally.

KAREN: BUT SENATOR, IS CHRISTOPHER LAO ACCOUNTABLE FOR THESE CHOICES? WHAT IS THE PROCESS, WHO SIGNED OFF ON THESE SUPPLIERS, FOR EXAMPLE. DID SECRETARY DUQUE KNOW? DID HE APPROVE OF THESE PRODUCTS?

SIRM: Yes. We are requiring that the bid documents be supplied. Clearly, Atty. and Usec. Lloyd Lao, he occupied two positions. He was Usec in-charge, he was executive director. There are a number of other people. There's admin/finance head, Suntay, there are other people, the ones who took over, Atty. Ouayan. I don't think I'm naming names; they were all present at the hearing. And it's important that we have a word with them and that they come forward and explain exactly what was followed because these are all negotiated bids with highly mysterious bidders. So, I think it's important. Tapos sabi pa niya . . .

KAREN: BUT WHAT ABOUT SECRETARY DUQUE, SENATOR IMEE. WAS HE A SIGNATORY IN ANY OF THESE CONTRACTS?

SIRM: We are yet to receive the contracts. They are taking a long time to produce them, so we are hoping that we'll be able to see them shortly. But the clear part is that Secretary Duque turned over a big block of funds - 42 billion - and the entire amount is 67 billion . . . Yung na-transfer sa DBM, 42.4 (billion). Pero yung overall that was flagged by COA na missing, iba't-ibang missing, ay nasa 67 billion. Ang laki-laki kaya ng halaga na yun. Hirap na hirap tayong maghanap ng pera, nangunguntang tayo, naninikluhod para makakuha ng vaccines, so that we can vaccinate our population. Ang dami-dami kailangan, ang dami-daming may sakit, walang isolation facilities, and yet we realize 67 billion disappeared just like that?

KAREN: SHOULD SECRETARY DUQUE HAVE BEEN A SIGNATORY IN THESE NEGOTIATED CONTRACTS, GIVEN THAT THIS WAS FUNDING GIVEN TO HIS AGENCY?

SIRM: I would have thought so, but DBM-PS operates under DBM. So once the fund is transferred, it's no longer under DOH but it's managed by DBM. So, it's the DBM Usec who has a free for all in that area.

KAREN: IS SEC. DUQUE LIABLE UNDER THE LAW FOR 42 BILLION PESOS, SENATOR?

SIRM: Of course, he is. I think he is liable for the entire sum of 67 billion because you are responsible and accountable as a public servant for all the public funds going through you. At the end of the day, corruption is paid for by the poor, as the Pope says. Only the poor pay for that. And the health workers pay for that because they've been unpaid, the frontliners, the contact tracers, and most of all the hospitals who are groaning under the weight of what they say is 86-billion debt.

KAREN: SENATOR, WHAT ABOUT DBM CHIEF WENDELL AVISADO? WHAT MANY FIND CURIOUS IS THE FACT THAT CHRISTOPHER LAO RESIGNED SOMETIME IN JUNE, I THINK...AND THEN WENDELL AVISADO, THE HEAD OF THE DBM, RESIGNED A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE SENATE CONDUCTED ITS FIRST HEARING. THE COA REPORT WAS ALREADY OUT BY THEN, AND OF COURSE CHRISTOPHER LAO WAS LINKED AS A MAJOR SUPPORTER OF THE PRESIDENT AND EVEN A FORMER AIDE OF SENATOR BONG GO, WHICH SENATOR GO SAYS "HE WAS NEVER MY AIDE." AND YET THE MYSTERY DEEPENS, SO TO SPEAK, BETWEEN THE CONNECTION OF SECRETARY DUQUE MAKING THIS DECISION GOING TO CHRISTOPHER LAO AND THEN YOU HAVE THE RESIGNATION OF TWO MAJOR HEADS OF THE DBM WHEN THE COA REPORT CAME OUT. SHOULD DBM CHIEF WENDEL AVISADO FACE THE SENATE AS WELL?

SIRM: I'm certain that he'd be willing to do it. The truth of the matter is that there was some kind of exodus in June of DBM-PS. We're very mystified by it. And if you remember, sa DepEd, nagkaroon na rin ng ibang imbestigasyon, I think it was DepEd, involving Usec. Lao as well. And then together with him in this exodus last June were many of his directors - Christine Marie Suntay and many other people - who, it was rumored, were axed by Secretary Avisado. I don't like hypothesizing, but the real truth is that we have to speculate because why are all these people leaving, they suddenly appear and then they leave. Is this a hijack, what is going on? And then we are very fully aware that Secretary Avisado was very unhappy about many of these people and in fact axed them upon sitting. So, it's very important that we finally get to the bottom of this. Ako ang interes ko, to tell you the truth - I think there are many senators and congressmen who are much better investigators than I am - my interest is to immediately find the money that remains, if these are really unobligated funds, and quickly pay out to our health workers. We cannot have that nightmare scenario of a mass walk-out and resignation and a nationwide hospital shutdown. That is what we have to avoid at all costs.

KAREN: BASED ON JUST WHAT HAVE YOU REVEALED, DO YOU CONSIDER CHRISTOPHER LAO A QUESTIONABLE CHARACTER IN ALL THIS? HE WAS ALSO DRAGGED INTO THE FRIGATE SCANDAL AT ONE POINT. DO YOU FIND HIS ANSWERS CREDIBLE WHEN HE FACED THE SENATE?

SIRM: Well, he certainly was very confident, that much was sure. But given the time constraints and, of course, the nature of a Senate investigation - as you know, we're limited to 'in aid of legislation'; we're not the police, we are not the NBI - I, of course, have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. We have to presume them innocent, but there is a lot of room to worry. And I believe that these people should be held accountable, everyone must be called forward to tell their story. Above all, we need to learn. Paulit-ulit naman itong mga istoryang ito. Higit sa lahat, yung 95 nillion na expired medicine, pwede ba! Ilan ang namamatay every year, palaki ng palaki ang expired medicine na yan. Isn't the repeat of mistakes the definition of insanity, or perhaps imbecility? When you keep doing the same thing every year, every year. Secretary Duque promises that he is going to do something about it. Ang simple lang niyan di ba? Software lang yan; in-out, in-out. Every mom knows that; we do it to our freezers, come on!

KAREN: SO WHY DO YOU THINK, SENATOR IMEE, DOES THE PRESIDENT STAND BY TO SECRETARY DUQUE IN THIS WAY?

SIRM: Well, I think the President has changed as well. He said he would accept the resignation, rather than go down with him, which is the original valiant statement. Ang sinabi ni Presidente lately, kapag daw mag-resign si Secretary Duque, tatanggapin niya. I believe that the President is an eminently reasonable man, and better yet, he's a highly experienced prosecutor. As the evidence mounts and the need for an investigation - a thoroughgoing one is very clear - I believe he knows who are really guilty now.

KAREN: COMING FROM WHAT SENATOR MARCOS SAID, THE LATEST WHICH WAS YESTERDAY IS "KUNG SI DUQUE WILL OFFER TO RESIGN VOLUNTARILY, TATANGGAPIN KO; PERO KUNG SABIHIN MO AKO MAGSABI SA KANYA NA 'MAG-RESIGN KA' THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN." SO, YOU'RE SAYING THE PRESIDENT HAS CHANGED HIS TONE?

SIRM: Yes, that's right, because he said before, "I will go down with Duque," parang ang tindi e. Pero siguro marami na siyang nalalaman, naririnig, kasi magaling na prosecutor yan, ang tagal-tagal niyang ganyan, e naririnig na niya, nagbabago na rin, di tatanggapin na niya.

KAREN: SHOULD DUQUE ALREADY SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL, WITH THE PRESIDENT STATING THIS? FOURTEEN OF YOU HAVE CALLED FOR HIS RESIGNATION AT ONE POINT. NOTHING HAPPENED THERE. BUT AFTER THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENT . . .

SIRM: Yes, I think so. He really ought to do that. I think the President has said that very loud and clear and it's important that he take heed from his boss. Alam naman natin ang Presidente ayaw magbago ng managers midstream, in the middle of a health crisis, you don't want to change your Secretary of Health. That's entirely understandable. Pero kapag ganun na ang salita ng Presidente, siguro ikaw na ang mauna 'no at wag ka nang maghintay.

KAREN: ON THE TRANSFER OF THE 42 BILLION TO THE DBM, DURING THE TIME OF PRESIDENT NOYNOY AQUINO THE SUPREME COURT MADE CLEAR A DECISION ON THE TRANSFER OF FUNDS, RIGHT? THE SUPREME COURT FLAGGED CERTAIN TRANSFERS AND THE SUPREME COURT SAYS YOU CAN ONLY ACTUALLY TRANSFER WITHIN YOUR AGENCY. BUT YOU CAN'T TRANSFER FROM ONE TO ANOTHER. CAN SECRETARY DUQUE BE SUED FOR THAT PARTICULAR TRANSFER?

SIRM: Well, I believe it would have to be under very stringent conditions that you can transfer because there are two agencies, so far, that we have discovered. Under DTI, there's the PITC which bids and procures originally from overseas all the equipment and supplies required by the government. Yun pala meron pang isa, eto yong DBM-Procurement Service, DBM-PS. Ngayon ang sinasabi nila, this is not another agency as such. It is actually transferred just for the purposes of bidding at which, upon award, it would be given back to DOH. What I find so strange is that this equipment that was bid out by DBM-PS, turned over to DOH, is actually being sold. And LGUs who are not receiving them for free are being compelled to buy. And that's the reason why really there's so much of that still in the bodega, in the warehouses of DOH because no one wants to take it, it's just too expensive - 27 bucks for a face mask?

KAREN: ARE YOU SAYING, SENATOR, THAT MONEY WAS GIVEN TO DOH FOR COVID RESPONSE, THEY HAD IT (INAUDIBLE) FOR PROCURING, AND THEN BUMALIK SA DOH, AND INSTEAD OF THE DOH GIVING IT TO THE LGUs, THE DOH IS SELLING IT TO LGUs?

SIRM: Yes, that's seems to be the case because if you ask the governors, and they testified, as well as the city mayors, they say that they had to pay for these outrageous prices.

KAREN: ARE YOU SAYING THE DOH IS RESELLING THE EQUIPMENT WHEREIN THE GOV'T HAD ALREADY SET ASIDE A BUDGET FOR THAT?

SIRM: That's what I don't understand. DOH had to sell or DOH had to buy. Ang labo nga ng sagot e, di ko maintindihan. But what is definitely clear is that unlike the testimony of the DOH na ipinamimigay nila ng libre, binabayaran yan ng mga siyudad at mga lalawigan, yan ang protesta ng mga gobernador. E barkada ko ang mga gobernador, tagal-tagal kong gobernadora e.

KAREN: BASED ON SEN. PANFILO LACSON'S EXPOSE, DID YOU FIND THIS OUT, WHEN IT COMES TO EXPIRED MEDICINES - THERE WAS A QUOTE, SINCE 2019, THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE 2.2 BILLION - ARE MEDICINES BEING SOLD TOO?

SIRM: Well, I don't know what's going on. The medicines were not sold, not yet, not that I know of. What were being sold were COVID supplies, yan alam ko kasi maski sa Ilocos, where we just had a terrible outbreak, we were compelled to pay. So, I'm really mystified about what's going on.

KAREN: YOU WERE COMPELLED TO PAY FOR THE MEDICINES OF THE DOH?

SIRM: For the face masks and other supplies. Binebenta e, so it was not given for free. DOH said that they gave them for free to the LGUs, binibigay daw ng libre sa mga ospital. E nagpoprotesta nga yung mga heads of local governments, saying that they had to pay and that's the reason they wouldn't pay. It was just too expensive, it was outrageous.

KAREN: SO, IT'S LIKE YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE 42 BILLION THAT'S BEEN ESSENTIALLY BUDGETED TO BE GIVEN TO ALL LGUs?

SIRM: Parang ganyan yung pagka-intindi ko. I'm praying that I'm completely wrong and that I misunderstood, and what the LGUs were paying for was another sum. But they said that this came from the DOH, so I really don't understand. DOH should not be in the business of selling.

KAREN: WILL YOU BE CALLING PHARMALLY PHARMACEUTICAL CORPORATION - THIS IS THE COMPANY THAT SOLD MASKS IN THREE BATCHES, WHICH YOU SAID CLOSED A DEAL OF SOMETHING LIKE NINE BILLION PESOS?

SIRM: Yes, that's on record, there are several others, there's Hafid N' Erasmus, there's another one called Blue Shield Biotech and so on.

KAREN: SENATOR, WILL YOU BE CALLING THEM IN?

SIRM: Yes, I think it's necessary that someone be called. But in many cases, we're not sure where the addresses are of these companies, the chief officers can no longer be found. It's all terribly, terribly sinister!

KAREN: DO YOU THINK THERE IS A LAW NEEDED FOR THIS NOT TO BE REPEATED AGAIN? OR ARE THE LAWS ALREADY IN PLACE?

SIRM: Yes, I think many, many laws are in place. We are obviously in the era of emergency powers and of big, big government because of the pandemic. We've turned over a great deal. However, I think it's clear that this shifting of funds that you mentioned, like the DAP (Disbursement Acceleration Program) under President Aquino should not be allowed and should be only perhaps allowed as an exception under very stringent circumstances. Yung mga magic na yan ng PITC at DBM-PS, bilyun-bilyon na iniiwan dyan for ages. Anong klase yun?

KAREN: DO WE NEED NEW LAWS ON FUND DISBURSEMENT AND PROCUREMENT OR, SENATOR, DO YOU BELIEVE, FRANKLY, LAWS ARE ENOUGH SPECIFICALLY ON FUND DISBURSEMENT AND PROCUREMENT?

SIRM: I think the laws need to be looked at. I'm one of the most serious critics of our national procurement law. I was a congressman then and I know the compromises that had to be made. I think it's about time that we look at that again. But certainly, these magic transfers to these two bodies in government need to be looked at again. But Karen, in all of this, I'd like to say that there is an upside. It's not just corruption we're talking about. We're really looking for the money to pay the health workers. I was really happy yesterday, DBM pala paid 311 million, sa kakaingay namin.

KAREN: IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

SIRM: It's hardly enough. And I think the upside is we should have all the so-called experts at the table. Absent at the table are the nurses who have the grinding job, the real grunt work of all of this and the most dangerous. Our disabled, all the children with special needs, all these challenged PWDs, why are they not at the table? We've almost forgotten them in the pandemic and yet they are among the most highly vulnerable.

KAREN: SHOULD THE DBM EVEN HAVE A PROCUREMENT OFFICE, FRANKLY SPEAKING?

SIRM: Yes, frankly speaking, we have to justify. And why do we have two. Meron na yung DTI for those overseas, meron pa yung DBM. Ano ang pinagkaiba ng dalawa? Bakit kailangan ng dalawa? Kailangan ba ng isa? Because, if you recall, the PITC was only set up because we had no diplomatic ties with Russia, China, and so on. Doon sila namimili because you cannot buy without an embassy or a trade office. E bakit ngayon, we have ties with all these countries. Do you still need these offices?